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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCT 98-14; Thompson/Tabata; Tentative Map (CT) (32)August 25,2000 TO: ^ITY MANAGER FROM: fp^/COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR MINUTES FROM COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORUM Attached for review are the detailed minutes from the Community Information Forum that staff held on Thursday, August 17, 2000 to share information on the proposed Standard Pacific Poinsettia Properties project, at the location known as the Thompson/Tabata site, with surrounding property owners. As I indicated in a previous memorandum, the primary issue raised by the speakers at the forum was related to the extension of Alyssum Road. The attached minutes, however, will provide you with verbatim comments from all of the speakers and the details of their individual concerns. The minutes also include responses from staff to speaker questions. As staff indicated to those attending the Information Forum, the attached minutes will be included as an exhibit to both the Planning Commission and City Council reports that will be submitted to process the application by Standard Pacific for their proposed project. Staff shared that the minutes will allow the Planning Commission and City Council to consider the concerns of the neighboring property owners as they review the project report and related plans. It is anticipated at this time that the project will be submitted to the Planning Commission for review and a recommendation in November, 2000, and subsequently submitted to the City Council after the first of the new year 2001 for final action. For information purposes, Mr. Jim Hicks, representative of the Vista Pacific Homeowner's Association, requested a copy of these minutes from the information forum. A copy of these minutes, therefore, have been forwarded (mailed) to him as requested. If you have any comments or questions regarding the attached minutes, please contact me at X2724, or Debbie Fountain at X2935. MARTY ORENYAK C: City Attorney Public Works Director Housing and Redevelopment Director Planning Director Senior Civil Engineer - S. Hajumann Senior Planner - M. Grim i/ COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOK_ J AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 1 Minutes of: COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORUM Time of Meeting: 6:00 P.M. Date of meeting: August 17, 2000 Place of Meeting: FARADAY CENTER FARADAY ROOM 173A AND B SUBJECT OF FORUM: Standard Pacific Poinsettia Properties - Thompson/Tabata Development PURPOSE OF FORUM: For City Staff to share information with surrounding residents regarding the project proposed by Standard Pacific on the Poinsettia Properties known as the Thompson/Tabata sites. PROJECT LOCATION: Properties located on the north and south side of Poinsettia Lane; east of Snapdragon Drive, north of Daisy Avenue; west of Aviara Parkway; and south of Camino De Las Ondas. FORUM AGENDA: I. INTRODUCTION - Marty Orenyak, Community Development Director II OERVIEW OF PROPOSED PROJECT - Mike Grim, Senior Planner (Project Planner, Planning Department) III. REVIEW OF ROAD AND CIRCULATION ISSUES - Skip Hammann, Senior Civil Engineer (Public Works - Land Use Development) IV. SUMMARY OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING NEEDS AND REQUIREMENTS FOR DEVELOPMENT - Debbie Fountain, Housing and Redevelopment Director V. NEXT STEPS FOR PROJECT CONSIDERATION - Marty Orenyak, Community Development Director VI. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS The meeting began with presentations from staff according to the agenda noted above. The audience members were then invited by Marty Orenyak, Community Development Director, to make comments and ask questions regarding the proposed project. The comments and/or questions made by the audience members are noted below with staff responses. AUDIENCE COMMENTS AND/OR QUESTIONS: 1. HELLO, MY NAME IS JOHN ZEMENICK, I LIVE IN VISTA PACIFICA WITH MY WIFE, MELINDA. My first question is in regards to the cul-de-sac. I'm looking at a letter that was addressed to Kathy Baker with Standard Pacific Homes. I'll read it, and this is from a group called Linscott, Law and Greenspan. "We understand that it has been proposed to not connect Alyssum/Rose, between Rose Drive and Snapdragon Drive. Based on results of September 23,1998, traffic studies prepared by Linscott, Law and Greenspan and tenures and the fact that it is planned to signalize Poinsettia Lane and Rose Drive intersection, this connection is not necessary to serve the project better." What has changed from that? Skip Hammann: I haven't seen that letter, but what has changed? Nothing has changed because it has always been staffs position that, again as I've made my presentation, we are always looking for multiple points of access and I'm not going to argue that you could close it, but our position or policy of the City is to always provide multiple points of access so that the traffic is as evenly distributed throughout the community as possible so that we don't over burden any one street. So the staff does not support that opinion of Linscott, Law and Greenspan. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOROivi AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 2 Mr. John Zemenick: Let me ask you this, when you drive down Batiquitos Drive, there are several gated communities in Aviara. How many accesses and egresses do they have to those residential groups? Skip Hammann: Well, I can't respond to all those different projects. When there gets to be over 50 units, we require secondary access, as mandatory secondary access. Mr. John Zemenick: There is secondary access off of Daisy on the other side. Skip Hammann: Well, I'm not going to stand up here and argue with you as to why you couldn't cul-de-sac it (Alyssum), because clearly, you could cul-de-sac it. But our position is, again, that we look for as many points of access within each project that we can get. Alyssum has always been designed to connect to the Thompson/Tabata property. One of the issues you get into when you have a roadway like Poinsettia Avenue is that you have limited points of access to it. There are only two points of access from these two projects including Spiniker Hills to the south. Again, we look for as many points of access as possible. Vista Pacifica was designed to accommodate the future development of this project and it is staffs position that we can't support this project without having that access there. It improves the overall circulation. I will grant that it does increase the traffic on Alyssum, but it will decrease traffic on Snapdragon, Ivy, Daisy and some of the other ones. We look at the big overall picture and the impact for the community as a whole. That's staffs position. You'll be able to express your concerns at the Planning Commission and at the City Council during the public hearings on this project. Mr. John Zemenick: Can I ask one more question? Skip Hammann: Yes Mr. John Zemenick: As far as the low-income housing units, what was the date of the change when formerly the project, the RV, and the low-income project was going to go in at the North side of Poinsettia. What was the date of the change? Debbie Fountain: I don't have an exact date for you. It was several months ago. Mr. John Zemenick: Would it be around the date of March 8, 2000? Debbie Fountain: Like I said, I'm not sure exactly when that decision was made and the developer was informed to relocate the affordable housing to an alternate site within the development. We actually have been talking about this project for much longer than the past year. The developer's proposal for affordable housing was presented to the housing team early on and the location was an issue we shared very early on in the project. The developer felt strongly that the original location they selected was a good site, so they decided to process their application with the original location. As we continued to review the project staff decided that we still didn't' think the site selected by the developer was the best location for it (the affordable housing). Mr. John Zemenick: I'm not trying to get on anybody's bad side, but there are several letters in the file. And you can look at the letters, you can look at the dates. There is an attorney letter and it's drafted and what it does, it presents a picture that says that the low-income housing units should be moved to the south side of the street. It is dated March 8, 2000. And this is way prior to when the individuals that live in Vista Pacifica were made aware of the project and the implications to our community. We have been in the area since 1985. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORUn/l AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 3 Debbie Fountain: I am willing to accept that the information you have on dates are correct. There have been different opinions on where the affordable housing should go. As Marty mentioned, these projects are very fluid. They continue in the review and revision process until we make a final recommendation that goes before the Planning Commission. Normally you would receive all the information on a proposed project as a property owner when it goes to Planning Commission. This forum is something that we've never held ever before. Typically, it is the developer's responsibility to go out and meet with surrounding communities if they know there's going to be some controversy over something. Typically, the first time you would hear about the details of a project in a lot of cases is when it is actually scheduled for a public hearing (unless the developer holds meetings with property owners). Once a project is scheduled for a public hearing, staff has its final recommendation on a project. Mr. John Zemenick: Just for clarification for everybody here, the Mariner's Point individuals were apprised of the project in February. The Vista Pacifica residents were apprised of the project in May—for whatever it is worth. 2. I'M AL RIEDLER, I LIVE IN LAS PLAYAS. Am I to understand that the only affordable housing in this 222 unit development are those 24? Those are the only ones that are identified as affordable housing? Debbie Fountain: Yes Mr. Al Riedler: Are the plans that you're considering now covering all 222 or just the 24? Debbie Fountain: The project that's being considered is the whole development. When we sent out the notices about the meeting, the reason we just incorporated the part about the 24 units was because of the issue about the access. So we just wanted to share that information. But the project that's going to be considered by Planning Commission and City Council is the entire project. Mr. Al Riedler: I see. Can we get a map of the whole project then instead of just the rdable housing one from you folks? Marty Orenyak: If you give us your name, we'll pass it on to the developer and I'm sure he'll be happy to get you the other plans. Mr. Al Riedler: Thank you. Marty Orenyak: If anybody else wants a full copy of the map, I'm sure the developer will be happy to give them to you. Just put your name on a list here and we'll pass it on. 3. I'M STUART WENTWORTH. I LIVE ON LOWER DAISY IN SPINIKER HILL. The developer did a study on traffic that proposed increasing traffic on Daisy by 50%. The City has not done a study since '98. Talking to staff, they're saying that they're hoping that upper Daisy will utilize Rose. But as you said it's circuitous and Daisy is a straight shot. What do you have to support that? Skip Hammann: Can I have what your question is? I don't understand to support what? Mr. Stuart Wentworth: Taking traffic off of upper Daisy through Rose. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOK^l AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 4 Skip Hammann: I'm not prepared to get into all the traffic reports tonight, but it has been our experience that the more points of access you provide people will use them, especially someone going out Poinsettia to the east. They're going to want to take the most direct route. So if you're on upper Daisy, the shortest route to Poinsettia is through the proposed Thompson/Tabata project. Again, there will also be a signal at that intersection (Poinsettia & Rose) so they are going to take the most direct route wherever their destination is. 4 I'M LARRY STAPLETON. I LIVE IN VISTA PACIFICA. I would like to thank the staff for their information. I've had some questions answered and your information has created some additional questions in my mind. To my knowledge there has been at least one and I believe two meetings with Planning Department people and some of the City Council Members. I find this not too untypical of Carlsbad City Council. But we can find no records of what transpired in those meetings. And it would appear to me in the public interest that if there are closed meetings the public be made aware of what goes on in those meetings, because it does effect us. I'd like to find out what went on in the meetings between Standard Pacific and members of the City staff. I would appreciate it if someone could provide that for me. When the change was made, we initially, as John pointed out, found out quite late in the process that this project was being considered and at that time as far as we knew gone quite a ways beyond just the talk stage. The initial point for the affordable housing was given to us as being on the other side of Poinsettia just above Las Playas, which is a multiple family home development. I met with Mike Grim and one of the people from traffic, we were told that Poinsettia was about at 30% of the expected capacity that it will be when it is run through to Melrose. If I were living in affordable housing, four'bedroom with two children or three children, I don't think I would want them crossing Poinsettia Avenue even if there is a stoplight to get to and from school and from the recreation facilities. It doesn't make sense. Kids don't always go to stop lights. We've already had one child hit at the corner of Poinsettia and Snapdragon. And I also heard this evening that the City's considering, a stop light at either Rose or Poinsettia. Several of our people in our community have not been objecting to getting a stop light at Snapdragon. We've been for it. I asked Mike at the time, "What's it going to take, another accident or a death at the corner of Poinsettia and Snapdragon before the City does something about it?" Mike assured me that's not the case. I fail to see the logic behind having children cross the busy intersection where the speed limit just went up from 40 to 45. If you go out there and actually drive 40 miles per hour you're going to have somebody in your trunk—have those children going back and forth across that street. The logic fails me. I mean you guys are experts. I'm not going to question your expertise in these kinds of issues, but I would suspect maybe somebody ought to think about that. I don't know who makes the ordinances in Carlsbad? Who's responsible for that? We've got a lot of ordinances that I don't understand and I guarantee you, I'm going to learn where they come from. But I've been told that the environmental review reviews projects against standards set by the City of Carlsbad. Is that correct? Does anybody know? Mike Grim: Well, actually there's two ways. The State has guidelines for what we determine as threshold levels that would tip you into an adverse impact, a significant adverse impact. CEQA does allow local agencies, such as the City of Carlsbad, to adopt their own threshold levels. As a matter of fact they recommend it because they realize that each individual city might have different thresholds. Carlsbad has not officially adopted any of those. So our threshold analysis is based on previous environmental review within the City and also anything else around the area. Mr. Larry Stapleton Are those static or dynamic, Mike? Have we changed them or are they pretty much firm? Mike Grim: I would say, they are pretty much firm. However, with any project there is a level of discretion and what could be an adverse impact because of particular quantifiable data on one project, may not be adverse on the other depending on the surroundings, taking on certain circumstances. So it's very difficult to actually quantify "x" amount of traffic trips or "x" amount of volume, cubic yards of grading per acre as significant or insignificant. We do have thresholds. CEQA does have thresholds whereby you can exempt a project from environmental review. And those are very, very specific. And obviously, this project does involve development. They are well within the realm of having to go through environmental review. But I would say, for the most part, the staff would try to be consistent because we want to have fair rules that we have to make consistently. Mr. Larry Stapleton: Thank you. Where's the affordable housing for Aviara? COMMUNITY INFORMATION AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 5 Debbie Fountain: Let me answer some of your other questions as well since they are related to affordable housing. One, I just wanted to comment about the children crossing the street. That doesn't just effect affordable. That issue will effect everybody that has children within this entire development. So those are things that have to be considered and it is something that parents will have to be sensitive to about projects in Poinsettia. Mr. Larry Stapleton: The children per sq ft in the affordable housing is probably going to be a little bit higher than that in the 2000 sq ft regular home, in the rest of the project. Debbie Fountain: Well, all that I am saying is that the issue regarding children crossing the street doesn't change regardless of what your income level is. It is something that parents have to work with the children on. But it doesn't matter if it's an affordable project or if it is another project. Those are still real issues that have to be dealt with. We felt that this was the best site for the affordable housing for a number of reasons and that's what we're recommending move forward. But there are always issues like the ones you are raising that have to be worked out, even for market rate projects ultimately. The other comment I wanted to make was about the meetings you were talking about. Marty actually mentioned this at the beginning—any private citizen, any developer, any interested party can meet with the City Council. There are not minutes kept at those meetings, they are not noticed meetings. They are basically informational meetings. You or your home owners association, anyone can go in and talk to the Council and we wouldn't have minutes of those meetings. That's between you and the Councilmember you spoke to. The developers have the right to do the same thing. There are no noticing requirements. Staff meets with the developers on an on-going and regular basis. That's part of processing an application. So those meetings are numerous, held throughout the year. Projects processed in Carlsbad have a very complex process they go through that takes months, often years to get through. So there's numerous meetings that happen. A lot of times if there's some controversy within the community, the Council asks staff to fill them in on what's going on. And since there was controversy on this project, we basically shared the same information we shared with you tonight with the Council, telling them this is what's going on, these are what the issues are. The meetings were informational only. There's no minutes or meeting notes taken of those meetings. The meetings are to help the representatives (City Council) of the City do their job. It's just like you could go in and present your story to the Council. The Council may simply want to know from staff what's been going on. So, that's what we share with them. You also asked about ordinances and how they're created within the City? The City Council approves all ordinances for the City. Ordinances comes from different directions. Sometimes private Citizens want something enacted. So, they will request that the City Council develop an ordinance to address it—barking dogs, or noise or whatever it may be. So they can go to Council and say, "I want an ordinance that regulates these types of activities," and the Council can either decide, "Yes, we want to do it or no, we don't." They usually get a staff report. We put the City website address up here because I think that is very important for people to be aware that you can actually go to the City website or you can go to the City library or you can go to the City Clerk's office and get copies of all the Agendas of meetings. It will tell you what kinds of things are being enacted—ordinances or policies or that type of thing. So they are all done at the City Council level and it is all public information what happens. In terms of Aviara development, due to the enactment date of the ordinance, Aviara wasn't actually required to comply because of where their application was in the process. They, however, were considering some amendments which would possibly trigger a requirement. So, we negotiated a deal with them where we could build a project that met their requirements and also produced additional units—that's known as the Villa Loma Apartment Project which is right up at El Camino Real not far from the Aviara Development. The only reason that we typically go off site and allow a developer to go off site is if that benefits the City in some way. In the Villa Loma case for Aviara we got more units. They were only required to do 160, we got 344 units out of that project. We also got more affordable units. They actually provide housing for people at 50 and 60 percent of the area median income. So if they're going off site to meet their requirement, they have to show the City that there is a benefit to that. Aviara was more the timing of when they came through. It was a negotiated deal and it was because it added benefit that we allowed them to build it outside. But right now, our policy is if you have the room within your development you have to build it (the affordable housing) within the development. Mr. Larry Stapleton: So did that policy change take place in '93? COMMUNITY INFORMATION F0kv.,d AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 6 Debbie Fountain: 1993 is when the inclusionary housing ordinance became effective. Aviara, the Villa Loma project, came very soon after that ordinance went into effect. Mr. Larry Stapleton How far along was Aviara at that time? Do you recall? Debbie Fountain: They actually had already been developing a number of their planning areas and had approved development applications. The ordinance was applied according to the application dates. If a developer had applications in that had been deemed complete, then you weren't obligated to meet the requirement. Aviara did develop a deal with the City because they wanted to make some future amendments to their plans. Mr. Larry Stapleton: That's the thing that bothers me a lot is all the deals that go on and the public doesn't know about this. That's why I asked about the meeting with the City Council. Thank you. Skip Hammann: I wanted to answer a couple of your questions in regards to pedestrian access at Poinsettia and Rose Avenue. You made the statement about pedestrian access. When we look at any project, we're looking at access and circulation for not only cars, but also for pedestrians, bicycles and in addition ADA access. Anytime we put a signal in, we're looking to provide all those types of access. It's not only for access for the children from the affordable home projects. It's going to be for all the citizens in that whole area to be able to use. You had another comment about the stoplight at Snapdragon. Right now there is a need for a signal at Snapdragon. It is not a great need, but the City has identified that as a potential place for a future stop light. As traffic increases on Poinsettia Avenue, the need is going to grow. However, there is probably not a need for two signals. Maybe at some future date there may be two signals, but right now the way staff is looking at it, is that we would probably choose one of the two locations and Rose is probably going to be the preferred location for pedestrian access. But that is not to say that it couldn't change. For whatever reason this project doesn't go forward and there is still a need for it, we may decide to put it back at Snapdragon. That's going to be a decision that is made over time because the needs change as the City develops. But that's how we are looking at it at this time. Unidentified Citizen from the Audience: Can you make a left turn from Rose? Do you make a left or do you just have to go right? Skip Hammann: If and when Rose Avenue is a signalized intersection, it will be a full access. It'll be a three way intersection so you will be able to make left turns there. Please, I don't want to start answering questions from the audience, we want to report all your questions. 5. I'M DOUG McFARLAND-VISTA PACIFICA. This staff has done a lot of work. And up until tonight, I pretty much thought you worked for us. But it appears to me that this is a done deal. It's all but decided. A lot of things that Larry brought up, such as the school kids walking across the street—it would be a lot easier if they were on the north side and I thought we were here to discuss and maybe change things. I don't have an answer as to what we should do, but I think you ought to be prepared to listen. 6. ALRIEDLER. When there is a long distance between stop lights, it would seem like pedestrian bridges might be the answer. Kids just don't want to walk very far to get to a stop light and a pedestrian bridge would make it unnecessary. Any consideration being given to that? Skip Hammann: There's no consideration at this time for a pedestrian bridge. This would not be the type of situation where it would be warranted. Quite frankly, even if you did put up a pedestrian bridge, that would not preclude an individual, a child or an adult, from jay COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOFw.,i AUGUST 17, 2000 Page? walking across the street. We do everything we can to encourage people to go to an intersection to cross safely, but we can't control people who want to jay walk across the street. 7. MY NAME IS BOB GATES. I LIVE ON LEMON LEAF DRIVE. We're an area where there would be no other alternative but to have construction traffic going through on our street and through our community in order to construct on the end of Lemon Leaf. And I'm concerned about how they will maintain that as a clean and safe environment during the construction process. Particuarly, we don't want to have construction workers parking their vehicles on our street during construction. We prefer not, if there's dirt or soil on the street, we would like that taken care of. We would hope that they won't do construction outside approved hours. If they damage the street, we would want to see that fixed. And we would not like to see unsightly piles of construction material around the site. I don't know how you control that, but these are concerns that we have living in the community now and having construction going on through our community. We would be interested in any comments you have about how we control that. Skip Hammann: I'll try to address your comments on that. I don't know whether you've seen some of the other projects around town, but we require that they put up construction fencing and put a wind screen or visual screen over the fencing to try to minimize the visual impacts and try to insure that they stage other equipment and materials on site and have their contractors and workers park on site. Our inspector is out there on a daily basis trying to make sure that they comply with these issues, especially the noise, not starting before 7:00 o'clock in the morning, including starting up and warming up equipment—just overall site control. But that's not to say that there's not going to be inconvenience to people who live in that area. Anytime you have construction, there's going to be some inconvenience, but we do take every effort to minimize it to the best we can. 8. MY NAME IS STEVE WOLKENSTEIN. I LIVE AT THE END OF THE ALYSSUM CUL-DE-SAC. So you're basically talking with a truly impacted property owner. It seems to me that a lot of what I've heard is that there is a concern by the City that there's not an access for fire and/or police to the area and that is one of the reasons for opening up Alyssum. It seems to me that it's the same effect of putting up a crash gate, opening up visual effect but not allowing for the traffic flow. The development does have two exits out. What consideration has been given by the traffic group to putting just a crash gate for the police to keep the visuals in tact, but not the traffic impact coming down that hill? Skip Hammann: Well, first of all, these are public streets, so putting up a crash gate would prevent other people in the community from using that street. We did take consideration of the neighborhood and the community. In general if we considered cul-de-sacing Alyssum, then we would be treating those people on Alyssum differently than the way we are treating people on Snapdragon, Rose and other local streets that could have direct access, where their property fronts directly on the road and they carry local traffic. We did not consider a crash gate or cul-de-sac because Alyssum was always intended to go through. That may not have been conveyed to people who are first time, second or third time buyers. Again, we put a map on the back wall so people could look at the original approval for the whole Sea Pines (Vista Pacifica) development. One of the main issues at the time of approval was to provide future access to this new proposed project, so that we could be sure and have the best circulation possible. Mr. Steve Wolkenstein: I guess that brings up two further questions. One is, what responsibility does the City have to get that fact on the whole map out there, finding out if certain folks knew about it, if any? The second question is, has the City at any time changed what used to be an open road, that was planned on and all of the sudden decided not to at some future date. So while Alyssum was originally designed according to the City to be a through street, has the City at any time taken a road that was supposed to be a through street, ended up not having one, changing your mind basically? You know there's a precedent for that. Skip Hamman. I'm not aware of any road that was intended to go through that we decided to close. It may have been closed on a temporary basis. I'm not aware of any road that was always intended to go through but was intentionally closed with no future extension. But again, one of the things I've mentioned earlier is that we have gone through a learning process on this particular infill project regarding how to notice future extensions of roads. It is our intent to make a recommendation to place signs at the end of these streets to notify the public of future extensions. We will have the developers, their sales people and others who come down to the City to do their own research. So, some will know. We don't go out every time someone wants to buy a home and hand out COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORo.,i AUGUST 17,2000 PageS information to them on road extensions or other project issues. To try to help people understand that a street is going to go through, we're proposing to put signs at the end of that future street which indicate the road will be extended. People driving by these areas will see these signs and know that it would be a future extension of the street. Originally, when Standard Pacific put in that temporary cul-de-sac there, there was a lot of discussion about the pros and cons of how you can do it. One of the main reasons why Thompson/Rose did not have their trucks come down there was that the City and developer with the Thompson/Rose operation wanted to not impact those citizens on Alyssum Road with all the agricultural traffic. Years ago, they use to have their truck traffic go down Daisy and they were getting a lot of complaints. So that was part of the Sea Pines (Vista Pacifica) development was to move their access more directly on to major arterial road which is Poinsettia. So that is how we got to where we are here today. 9. MY NAME IS MELINDA RUSH. I LIVE IN VISTA PACIFICA. I was curious about your multiple points of access policy. Is that a written policy?—the multiple points of access policy that Skip referenced for the roads—is that a written policy? Skip Hamman: We have a written cul-de-sac policy that says any road with over 50 single family dwelling units has to have, provide secondary access. When we get large projects, we look for multiple points of access to provide even distribution of traffic so we're not impacting one street more than the other. We don't have a written policy that says that we need to have multiple points of access, other than it is just good engineering and good land planning to do that. Ms. Melinda Rush I understand the developer has a proposal to keep the cul-de-sac. Will you consider that plan? Skip Hammann: Staff is not considering that plan. We're not supporting that plan for the reasons I stated prior. Ms. Melinda Rush: So you've seen the plan and you're not going to support it? Skip Hammann: I have not seen the plan showing the cul-de-sac area. As I said earlier in my presentation, physically, yes, you could put a cul-de- sac there and yes you could go out and hire a traffic engineer that says you could put a cul-de-sac. But again, we look at the big picture and try to use good judgment and good planning and for a number of reasons, staff does not support cul-de-sac just to benefit the residents on the dead end street of Alyssum. Ms. Melinda Rush And do I understand that staff is closed to the idea now? Is that what I'm hearing from you? Skip Hammann: That's Engineering's position. 10. I'M DAVE RUDRICK. I LIVE ON MARGARITA LANE IN VISTA PACIFICA. Just an observation after living in Vista Pacifica for about 14 years, the way I get out of that area is through Daisy. The reason I go through Daisy is because the traffic is too difficult and dangerous to go out Alyssum now. And I suggest to you that I'm not the only one who probably does that, but a lot of other Vista Pacifica people do as well. And I think that when the folks, even if you open up Alyssum through Vista Pacifica from the proposed project, I believe a lot of folks will find out the best way to get out of there is also back at Daisy. And that complicates my trip out of Vista Pacifica because Daisy is going to be so difficult to get out, we're going to be blocked in. Sometimes just looking at things on paper doesn't necessarily solve a problem. I'm reminded for example every time I go to the Seven Eleven on Palomar Airport Road, there's a way in and a way out. That's the worst planned project in the whole City. I think we ought to be very careful about what we're doing here, in providing only two ways out of both projects really, Vista Pacifica and the new project. I think that's a mistake. COMMUNITY INFORMATION AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 9 11. JIM HICKS. Will I get a copy of this here recording of the meeting. Will I have access to what's been said tonight? Will it be in type, or do I get a copy of the tape? Marty Orenyak: You'll get whatever we get from her (referring to minutes clerk). Mr. Jim Hicks OK. I went to a City Council meeting and I told them that I thought Standard Pacific, the City and Planning Commission you all were sitting back in closed rooms, making plans behind our backs. I still think this is true. I don't have too many questions. I'm just going to give you some of my opinions. I think you all have been pretty closed minded about the whole thing. Especially when I came this evening. The first, I'm sorry I think your name was Mark? Marty Orenyak stated his name. Mr. Jim Hicks: OK. Mr. Jim Hicks: The first thing I heard from you tonight was that, you know, we don't plan on making any changes. We're just going to tell you all what's going to happen and be happy. And then you've got other meetings you can go grip at. I think you've all been closed minded about this from the beginning. As little objections have come up you all skirt the issues and do little things like take a couple lots out and put a road somewhere else. But, you guys said you're not looking at keeping the cul-de-sac closed and I, there you go, so it's pretty closed-minded. Actually, we're all pretty deceived. I'm sure you know something that was done 15 years ago wasn't planned here in the year 2000 and yea, we're going to put this road through in the year 2000. Did Standard Pacific already have this whole plan set up 15 years ago? It seems to me like somewhere along the line you've got to say, "Hey, you know what, this was done 15 years ago, instead of just being straight line, looking at those things." We're just going to do whatever we've got to do. I think somewhere along the line, you need to listen to people. I've got some photographs here I'm just going to submit to you all. (The photographs are attached as Attachment 1 to theses minutes for record purposes.) And I'm going to show you 'cause I know that you like to always call this here a dead end, a dead end. Well by God, it is a cul-de-sac. Everybody who bought a house there bought in with a cul-de-sac. Actually, you realize when we all bought, we all actually paid a little bit more money for our homes because they were on a cul-de-sac. Of course, a bunch of us, I guess like myself, didn't have good sense to come down here to the City to find that out. But, you know, I'm going to submit these pictures to you all and I want you to look at them. Because when I bought there, I saw a wall, a stucco wall all the way around this facility - all the way around Vista Pacifica. When I bought there I thought this was pretty much a closed community. I just figured it was a closed community. It's got a wall all the way around it. And now you want to start calling this all temporary stuff. I mean, either the developer deceived us and/or the City deceived us 14-15 years ago whenever that wall was put up. And that's wrong, and by God just live with your mistakes instead of just trying to tell us what is going on now. Maybe I do have some questions after all. I know when I watch the next City Council meeting, I'm going to hear a lot about these questions being answered, and by God I think they're going to tell me most everything I say is based on emotion. By God, you're right. You are messing with my home. You think I am pissed off? I am pissed. I ain't slept all week long over this. So with that being said, let me ask a couple of questions. Is there any way that I can get the names of all the people that sit around, I think you call it a City Planning team. I'd like to actually find out who sits on this little team in a room and makes decisions for the residents of Carlsbad? Sometimes I don't always think you all hold the Citizens where they ought to be. I mean, you've got to remember, it's everybody here who pays your wages and you don't even back us on most of this stuff. So, I would really like to know who sits with, on the team in the little room and makes all the decisions. Is that available to me? Marty Orenyak: I don't know what team you're talking about. Mr. Jim Hicks: Well, you all mentioned a bunch times tonight, a City Planning team. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOK\,..i AUGUST 17,2000 Page 10 Marty Orenyak: Mike Grim is the project planner for this project. Mr. Jim Hicks I've met Mike a lot of times. I think he's a good guy. OK. Who else is on the team? Marty Orenyak: Skip Mammon is on this team. Mr. Jim Hicks: So there's four people on the team or three? Marty Orenyak: No, it's representatives from every department that have to take care of review of this project. It is not always the same team members. There are different teams, depending on the project. If you want this team, then we can give you that list. Mr. Jim Hicks: Oh, so it's a lot of different little teams? Marty Orenyak: Mike is not the only Planner we have. Skip is not the only Engineer we have. They're assigned projects and they become team members on that project. So if you have a specific project you would like to know about, we'll give you the team members. Mr. Jim Hicks: Well, I'd like to have the name of the team on this here project. Marty Orenyak: OK. You've got them. Mr. Jim Hicks: So it's you three there making all the decisions for this... Marty Orenyak. Not me. The project team makes recommendations that are then carried forward to the Planning Commission and the Council. Now the misconception you have and some of these other people is that tonight's meeting is some sort of public hearing and we have a vote. We don't have a vote on anything. You're arguments that you're making to us—save them because they are great arguments for Planning Commission and City Council. Someone from the Audience: We're asking you to listen. Marty Orenyak: We're listening. Someone from the Audience: No you're not. Marty Orenyak: Yes we are listening. Someone from the Audience: No you're not. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORo.,/1 AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 11 Mr. Jim Hicks: No one's ever listened. I've been talking now for months ever since I've heard about this. I'm saying why can't we just work on some solutions and keep the cul-de-sac closed, keep Vista Pacifica closed. You know what, everybody just tells me. You know what it is? This street was slated to be put through and this is the way it is. This is the way it was set down 15 years ago and we ain't going to change. I think that's wrong. So, I guess I'm just trying to tell you all that, by God, I ain't happy, And a lot of people aren't happy. But, I find it funny that you all keep making decisions for everybody when I don't think it's what anybody really wants. I mean it just doesn't make sense to me. I know there's ways to do it, but I think everybody's had a closed mind about this. I think everybody gets something in their head and they can't say, "Well you know what, we've been hearing a lot of complaints about this. You know maybe there is a solution. Maybe we can work this a little bit different." I've never dealt with the City. So, I don't know whether I've got to go hire an architect myself and have them redraw this and then re-try to sit down with you guys. But somewhere I think this has got to the point now where it's going to go and there's no stopping it. Ok. Let me ask you something about this affordable housing. Now I'm just wondering about all these little places you're talking about here in the City. I'm wondering about this one up here on El Camino Real. I've wondered, all the people that live there, do they actually work in the City of Carlsbad? Is it written down that says if you buy affordable housing here in Carlsbad you've got to work here too? Debbie Fountain: No Mr.Jim Hicks: Or, do people from Escondido move out here and keep their jobs in Escondido? Debbie Fountain: Fair housing law doesn't allow the City to do that. You can't require someone to have previously lived in Carlsbad or to work in Carlsbad to live in affordable housing. Villa Loma does have a large percentage of people that actually work in Carlsbad, that previously lived in Carlsbad. Sometimes that number changes, because people move in and out, but it's not a requirement. They don't have to work in Carlsbad to live in the affordable housing. They could have just lived here before in another project and moved into this project because it is more affordable for them. But Fair Housing law doesn't allow the City to make those kind of distinctions that require it. We try to give first preference for marketing and all of those types of processes to encourage people that work here to live here. We can't require it, just like we can't require somebody that buys a home in Carlsbad to also work in Carlsbad. Mr. Jim Hicks: Ok. It's just like a dream that we get everybody that lives in Carlsbad to work in Carlsbad. Debbie Fountain: It's our goal. However, people make decisions where they live for a number of reasons. If you have two people working, they may have to decide to live in the middle somewhere between the two work places. Our goal is to provide the opportunities. The hope is that they'll at least have that as an option to be able to live and work in the community. Mr Jim Hicks: Ok. Then my last question is—why won't you look at other alternatives about keeping Alyssum closed? Why won't you people look at this? Skip Hamman: Well, as I've said before, you could put a cul-de-sac at the end of Alyssum. But we need to look at the big picture to do the best thing that we can for the community and other people. By making the connection through Alyssum, we will help relieve traffic on Daisy. It will help relieve traffic on Ivy. It will help relieve traffic on Snapdragon. And, yes, it will add traffic to Alyssum. We are using our best engineering, planning, traffic judgments and our recommendation is going to be to the Planning Commission and City Council that that road goes through. But you are correct, you could put a cul-de-sac there. It is staffs opinion that we won't support the project without that connection. Mr. Jim Hicks: So pretty much, the residents of Carlsbad live with your opinion? COMMUNITY INFORMATION AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 12 Skip Hammann: No. It is only staffs opinion. When you go to the public hearing, it is a recommendation based on our experience and our understanding of other policies and previous directions. You'll be able to make your case at the public hearing at the Planning Commission. Mr. Jim Hicks: Ok. I'll do this then, because I heard you mention something about the people up on Daisy. I feel for a lot of people on Daisy who has got to deal with a lot of traffic. What the gentleman says, "I think we need two more lights on that street too." Because, really, when you all put the speed limit up there at 45, and I guess that was a different team. Traffic has gotten loud as hell out there on Poinsettia now. I'm having to think now about putting all new windows upstairs because it's loud at night since you jumped it (speed limit) up to 5 miles an hour. I don't know if everybody was going 40 to 45 up that hill and maybe they're going 45 to 60 now up that hill. I don't know what it is but by God it got louder. You do need two lights to try to somehow take care of this traffic up through here. And the folks down on, that live in Spinniker Hills—I'll be honest with you, a lot of these folks are heading straight down Daisy out Batiquitos to get to Poinsettia now. I don't see them saving much time going through all these winding roads you've got up through this here new neighborhood. In fact it looks like it's going to add another quarter mile on their trip. Did you all look at that? I grew up in Los Angeles in the San Gabriel Valley, where you can take roads like Foothill Blvd, Baseline, and others. These roads run for miles. You can go anywhere you want on back roads. Here in Carlsbad it's different man. I think the biggest trick is you need to get people out to the streets just pretty much like asap. Don't have to be running people through, but this is the long way out. So whatever I think, I just think what you are all doing is wrong. Thanks. 12. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BILL BROOKS. I LIVE ON SNAPDRAGON DRIVE. I have some of the original plans for Vista Pacifica. It does call for three homes at the end of Alyssum Drive. And it said, now when that was originally built, the people that live north of me was told that all would change when they built the three homes in the cul-de-sac. It was not intended at the time that when Standard Pacific built for that to be a through street. Now, these people were told that they would get more property when that was lined up with the property across the street. That road is left of course for access for David Thompson to get his trucks in and out because he couldn't be land locked. But the reason I am here tonight really is to ask for a definite proposal that they could put a traffic light at Snapdragon and Poinsettia. As Aviara Parkway opens up to connect to Palomar Airport Road that traffic is going to at least double on Snapdragon because it is going to be an access where they don't have to go up 78 and over to make their connection. I myself can not go out on Poinsettia, westbound out on Poinsettia. I go all the way around to Daisy to go down to Batiquitos lagoon so I get the signal. Now the people that are justified over on Daisy are objecting to the traffic. And we're contributing to that because there is no way we can get out on Snapdragon. If you live up in that area, every once in a while you'll hear some brakes screeching because people are trying to cross Poinsettia. So I would like you to consider putting a stop signal at Snapdragon and also at Rose. Thank you. 13. LADIES AND GENTLEMAN. MY NAME IS DON STAFFORD. I LIVE AT 904 DAISY AVENUE OFF OF DAISY AVENUE, POINSETTIA, SECOND HOUSE UP THE HILL. And I think a lot has been said here tonight. And I think the best thing to do, I'm talking to you folks now (referring to staff), that you go back to the City Council or whoever is in charge of this project and you tell them that you've got about, I would say 150 people here that are madder than hell. If they want to be elected next time, they had better get on the ball. These places on Daisy, I don't know about this project across the way from us, but they had a chance to develop this like they wanted. Put the streets in, all this stuff. Well, you start at the top of Daisy Avenue and my neighbors do it, the only reason I don't do it is because I live at the bottom of Daisy Avenue and two houses you can't even get up speed. And the more people that uses Daisy the worse it's going to get. And you've got Batiquitos Avenue that you come down through. Ever since that has been open, if you make your turn there, I'm just telling you people that live on that area, you better look twice and don't turn out in the traffic, pull over to the side. Get a start up the hill. But if you don't, somebody's going to run right over you. So I think the best thing for you to do, I'm not trying to tell you your job. I just want you to know that these people are mad. And I'm mad with them. And there's going to be 150 people or more at the next City Council meeting to chew these people out that we elected. We didn't elect you. They hired you people to do a job and you're trying to do the job. Would you mind going back and telling them that these people that pay their wages are mad at them. And this is the first time I have seen them mad. And we'll have a new mayor and we'll have a new bunch of City Councilman and everything. Because they're going to have 150 people out there that's going to be campaigning against them. Some of them that run don't even get 150 votes for their campaign. So would you do this for me? You people, you're doing what you're told to do. You're trying to do the right thing. But you're not doing the right thing. Thank you very much. COMMUNITY INFORMATION AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 13 14. HI. MY NAME IS VICKIE ROBINSON. I LIVE IN VISTA PACIFICA. I've sat and listened to a lot of the questions and answers. The thing that occurs to me, especially in the case of Skip is that there's a very dosed mind. There's no suggestion that he'll even consider any other option. The only option is that that was not always supposed to be a cul-de-sac. It's supposed to be an open road and therefore that's the only option that exists. When I look at that map over there, I see that the area along Alyssum which has about 10 homes along there, it becomes an island. Once that cul-de-sac is opened they're going to have traffic along Poinsettia, traffic along Snapdragon and now you're going to bring traffic along Alyssum. These people are going to be surrounded on all sides by substantially increased traffic. This is not fair to the people who bought those homes. Whether they thought they were buying a cul-de-sac or not. It's not fair. If you look at that map again, I see quite easily that you could extend that road there where it turns on to Alyssum and take it straight out to Poinsettia. And you'd have another exit right on Poinsettia. I mean, that's pure straight logic. First of all, you're making an island out of a bunch of people who have bought these homes and they're very expensive homes. Yet, we must be the slums of Aviara. We're the people who don't have the big, huge expensive $600,000 homes. Our homes are only $350,000. But none the less, we perhaps can't afford to sell our house and move someplace where we're not going to be inundated by all this new traffic that you want to bring on to our street. I don't live on Alyssum by the way. I live on Rosemary, but I certainly can feel for these people who do live on that street. I can feel for these people who live on this street. Obviously, Skip can't. As far as the low-income housing is concerned, the new egress that has been made, taking it out to Rose Street instead of bringing it on to Alyssum—explain to me please how that cul-de-sac access to this high density low-income housing is different than if they were across the street on the other cul-de-sac? I mean a cul-de-sac is a cul-de-sac. If they're going to have one egress from their housing, why does it have to be this location that you have specified, rather than the location initially suggested by the developer, which seems to be a much more logical location backed up against existing townhome type development. As far as that project is concerned in terms of schools—it is my understanding that we in the Vista Pacifica all the children in advanced school are currently (in a lot of these new developments) are currently going to Aviara Oaks. That's a substantial distance away, compared to Pacific Rim. Mike Grim and several members of the audience: Vista Pacifica is going to Pacific Rim. Ms. Vickie Robinson: Are they? Mike Grim and several members of the audience: Yes. Ms. Vickie Robinson: If that low-income housing was across the street, where the children would have much easier access to the school, it would make so much more sense to me. When my children were small, I had a situation where both my husband and I worked. I could have been considered in that category of a low-income housing and would have appreciated being, in my case I did, live in a location where my children could get to and from school on their own without my assistance because they were latchkey kids. Once they got to a certain age, they took themselves to and from school and had a key to get into the house. In the case of affordable housing, it seems to me that a much larger majority of people are going to have families of that type where both parents work. Therefore, the children are going to have to get themselves to and from school. The people who are going to live in the $400,0000, $500,000, $600,000 and $700,000 are more likely to jump into their SUV and take the kids over to school. Whereas, the people who live in affordable housing went to work an hour ago and the kids have to get themselves to and from school on their own. So, just from that perspective, if would seem to make a whole lot more sense for those kids to get to and from school without having to cross a major thoroughfare. I think those were all the points that I had, but you know, none of this personally effects me. I don't have small children. I'm not going to move into the affordable housing. I don't live on Alyssum. But, I tell you what—I'm really upset with the attitude I've heard here tonight from the people who work for the City. Skip has said that the only thing the Planning Department will support is for Alyssum to be opened up. We can go complain but the only thing the Planning Department is going to support is that Alyssum be opened up. And he doesn't even want to hear about any alternatives. The only thing that can happen is that Alyssum will be opened up. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORuiVl AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 14 15. I'M RENATA MULRY. I LIVE ON NUTMEG IN VISTA PACIFICA. I don't think I can top the clarity of the remarks which were just made. I want to say first of all that I am very sorry that I have a feeling our tract (Vista Pacifica) is going to be a part of your learning experience. If you didn't think 15 years ago that it was necessary to put signs on roads, which you claim ultimately was always designed to be cut through, I don't see now why we should take the results or the blunt of either your oversight, your lack of knowledge or your lack of initiative. The second point I want to address is that every buyer in the State of California, and I hope this is true of other states also, is given a subdivision report filed with the State of California. This report describes the property, the nature of the property, where the property is and pertinent factors which effect our property. I have here the subdivision report for Vista Pacifica. It mentions Thompson/Rose. It mentions Palomar Airport. Nowhere does it mention any roads being extended, cut through or whatever. Now please don't come and tell me that as a buyer, I should have run to every City department checking on what is missing in this report. I have no duty to perform such a task. The only part of this report which refers the potential buyer to seek more information is on the soils. I can understand that because the composition of soils is something very specific and technical and probably would be too complicated to put in the subdivision report. It seems to me, and I'm going to ask you directly, that there is not one reason why Alyssum should be extended. When our tract was built, apparently circulation was considered completely adequate that you could enter on Snapdragon and exit on Daisy. And certainly our tract at 196 homes is by no means that much smaller than the tract that is being proposed to the east of us. The length of Alyssum from the new tract down to Snapdragon is such a short distance. With a light, the traffic will not only be backed up on our streets, and Standard Pacific better take note of this, it will also be backed up into their streets. That might not be an attractive feature for the high priced homes going in to the east of us. I would now like to address the question of affordable housing. For many of you who I don't know and you don't know me, nine years ago I stood almost alone before the City of Carlsbad Planning Commission and the City Council itself and I vehemently and strongly criticized the whole affordable housing ordinance. I'm not going to go back over that now, but I will say in this open session that the way that the program is administered is 100% arbitrary. My feeling is reinforced even more tonight by what I have heard and have seen on the slides that you have projected for us. What I saw was that the need for very low-income housing seems to be a greater figure than any other category. I've also heard that the City is delighted when it can create more of these types of units by placing them at a site where they can built, in other words where there's room. But if this is true, then why are you not saying to Standard Pacific, "Hey, we don't want 22 or 24 units, we need 50 to meet this non-existence State requirement, which is not written in these figures any where." But no, I don't understand why sometimes it's off site, sometimes it's onsite, sometimes it's close to the site, sometimes as in the case of Aviara it's several miles away. These are very, very unanswered questions I have. And therefore, I want to say again, there is no need to extend Alyssum. You have kept it secret and obviously in a case where it's never been revealed, somebody is on the hook here and it certainly isn't the buyer. Thank you. 16. MY NAME IS JACK RAY. I LIVE ON IVY. I came here for the information mainly. And what I've heard is that some community members received notification on planning, prior to others. I've heard that the higher density low-income community or housing is going to be moved from one cul-de-sac to another cul-de-sac. I've heard that the trouble with the lights and problem with the traffic is going to be such a problem on Snapdragon and Poinsettia that a light is going to be warranted, that it also might be one on the other new road. It seems to me that you're placing most of the burden on people in my community on their safety of the people and the children. You're placing more burden on us that doesn't seem to be warranted here. It seems that you have a bunch of little squiggly lines that can easily be redrawn a little bit to accommodate those people who have been in the community for a number of years and have chosen to come here long before any new houses have been built. I don't see why the burden has to be put on people in this community when you can easily resolve this and be opened minded to do so. This is very uncomfortable. I'm quite disturbed by this and I know you have plans that you want followed, but when you buy a home in this area that we bought homes in, that's a problem now for the road to go through. You bought that home because it's a safe situation. When you bought that home, that (Alyssum) was considered a cul-de-sac. We bought this place because it was a very safe place and it was in the community of Carlsbad, which we chose to be in. I think it would be a good idea to redraw those little lines and put in another street right up along side the development. That solves a lot of problems. I don't understand why one cul-de-sac is better than another. This is so uncomfortable. I'm quite displeased by actions from you folks. I wish you would change. 17. HELLO. MY NAME IS BOB SMITH. I LIVE IN VISTA PACIFICA. I bought my home in Vista Pacifica 15 years ago. All there was east of me was a cul-de-sac that we're talking about and arguing, rolling hills, no Aviara, none of this except Spiniker Hills. And it seems to me that Spiniker Hills has voting rights over me because they've been here longer. I don't seem to have any rights at all because I am a Citizen of Carlsbad and no matter what I do or what I say, I don't believe is going to change any body's mind here. But why doesn't Carlsbad pay more attention to the COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOFv^i AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 15 people that are tax payers, have been paying taxes. Many of us have lived there for 15 years. And why isn't consideration given to the people in this cul-de-sac. I don't live in the cul-de-sac, but have they no rights? They've been paying taxes here for many, many years. I say this as a member of this community, not because I live in the cul-de-sac. However, I do live on Alyssum Road. I'm going to have to leave my house, go out Snapdragon to Poinsettia. It seems to me that this increased traffic from this new area is just going to increase traffic for me and for everybody and I venture to say even for Spiniker Hills. But I know a lot of people who live over there take either Ivy or Snapdragon to get out to Poinsettia. I would if I lived over there. And right now, there is plenty of traffic there for a signal. What's it going to be like when you put this new community in there? Isn't that going to increase the traffic on Snapdragon? Isn't that going to increase the traffic on Alyssum? Isn't that going to increase the traffic on the intersection of Poinsettia and Snapdragon? Won't there be more people coming from Spiniker Hills over to that signal, increasing the traffic on Ivy, increasing the traffic on Snapdragon? And why was Daisy stopped at the upper end and not run through to the new area, the new development south of Spiniker Hills? That stops there. That does not run through. Unidentified Audience Member: Because we complained to the City and they listened to us. Mr. Bob Smith: Well, who is it you complained to, cause I'd like to know? Unidentified Audience Member: We complained to the City and they listened that time and changed the plans. Mr. Bob Smith: Anyhow, my main concern is this. Why isn't more attention paid to the present tax payers that live in these communities, when they put a new community in? I don't understand that. We don't seem to have a voice. And I have to agree with what was said here before about Alyssum Road. It doesn't matter what happened 15 years ago, whether it was supposed to go through or wasn't supposed to go through. This is impacting a whole community. It should be obvious by the number of people here. Nobody is happy with this road going through. That is all I have to say. Thank you. 18. HI. THIS IS STEVE WOLKENSTEIN AGAIN. I LIVE ON THE END OF ALYSSUM. This is a question directed to Skip. In addressing the prior woman's comments about picking one of the two end roads to go through to Poinsettia versus opening it (Alyssum) up. What in your opinion makes that any worse than what it already is? Or why was that not considered as a viable option? Skip Hamman: Well, the reason that was not considered as a viable option is that Poinsettia Avenue is classified as a major collector or major arterial rather. There are intersection spacing requirements because of the high volume of traffic. As one of the gentlemen said earlier in the presentation, the traffic volume there for the capacity of this road is probably 30% of what it may be in the future. So we've taken long-range planning into consideration and we can't have a number of direct access points along Poinsettia. You could only get two intersections spaced in this area. You can see in the picture that the proposed accesses are fairly evenly spaced. They barely meet the minimum spacing requirements as is. So that's why we did not consider making another connection in that area. Mr. Steve Wolkenstein: What about making it a right turn only? It is not a full intersection. You already have two. You have one major intersection, you have another exit in the lower end. That would be a right turn only. They could then make a u-tum at the stop light at Rose? We're only concerned (with) in and out. And that would certainly allow access in both from the Emergency Vehicles as well as anybody who lives there. It would also allow for exit at least going into the easterly direction. Skip Hammann: Again, we consider that an intersection and we want to control the number of intersections along a major road like this. When people are traveling down Poinsettia, we want the traffic to flow as freely as possible. We made our decision based on engineering and highway standards. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FOFfc,d AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 16 Mr. Steve Wolkenstein: Is Poinsettia designed to be two lane for each way or is there a design to go further? Or to be expanded to three lanes. Skip Hammann: It's designed to be two lanes in each direction and it is going to go easterly from here to connect with El Camino Real. It continues easterly from El Camino Real and then eventually will join up with Melrose. It will terminate at Melrose on the eastern boundary in the Carrillo Ranch area. Mr. Steve Wolkenstein: Thank you. 19. LARRY STAPLETON. I've got one more question: We have two entrances in the Vista Pacifica, one from Daisy and one from Poinsettia. Why is it that the new development needs three entrances? Skip Hammann: Again, this project is an infill project. As Mike stated earlier, this is going to complete the last phase of the development in this area. When Sea Pines (Vista Pacifica) was designed, Alyssum was intended to be extended to provide the Thompson/Tabata site with another future connection point so that we can have multiple points of access to distribute the traffic as evenly as possible. I'm not going to argue that it won't increase the traffic on Alyssum and that short segment. It clearly will. I understand that it (the road) is an issue for the folks that live there. Mr. Larry Stapleton: Well, the thing that comes to mind is that the property is used to grow corn or tomatoes or strawberries or something and how did somebody have the infinite wisdom 15 years ago that there was going to be a wall there to knock down and put that street through? It just baffles me. We can't seem to understand from day to day what goes on and yet somebody 15 years ago knew that somebody was going to have to punch a hole through a wall and get out into the middle of an empty field because there was a housing development going to be there. It doesn't make sense to me. Ladies and gentlemen, you've got an issue on the table and a lot of people that are very concerned about it. I urge you to take this to the City or wherever you take it to your teams or whatever, the business of managing a community is just like managing a business. You've got guidelines that you go by. You've got City codes that you go by. You're paid to look at those City codes and abide by them as clearly as you can. But, in some cases, as in business, you have to look at whether or not you are going to hide behind the book or are you going to look at the people involved and make a rational, logical decision with the people that are effected in mind. I urge you to take this message forward to wherever you have to take it. 20. TOM JUDD FROM MARINERS POINT. I have a general question—I actually work in Irvine, so when I leave for work, I go north. My wife goes south and her drive although it is a little shorter, it takes longer because of the traffic. When you started out on all the check points you have to go through, I didn't see one that's overall San Diego County traffic plan as such. Right now traffic in the morning kind of stops near Leucadia or La Costa around there. In the morning, and I can see adding something like the traffic from this project to bring it up to Poinsettia or something. Do you guys have guidelines you follow for that kind of traffic flow? I think the overall impact of this development is going to put more people in the community. I think that is what the people are complaining about is the traffic impact in their local area. And also, I guess my question is, what is the guideline for overall traffic in San Diego or in Carlsbad? Skip Hammann: Generally we use the SANDAG standards and guidelines. SANDAG stands for San Diego Association of Governments. SANDAG reviews regional traffic needs. Poinsettia is one of the roads which SANDAG has identified as a major link to satisfy some of the regional traffic needs. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not. Mr. Tom Judd: Well, I see this as a problem. I'm just wondering how it is addressed. I do not have an answer to the problem. I just want to know if it is addressed. COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORUi AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 17 Mike Grim: It is. When we updated our General Plan about six years ago, we prepared a new environmental document. That environmental review document showed that even without any further development in Carlsbad, we were both below the standards in air quality and traffic circulation. Traffic is a regional issue and it is a very complex one. Palomar Airport Road is a great example. A lot of traffic on Palomar Airport Road is not traffic that's coining from or going to Carlsbad. People cut through from other cities to get to 1-5, and we have to live with the regional aspect of that road providing regional traffic. So on one hand, you 've got the people living in the Carlsbad community who look out and say we've got to control traffic. On the other hand, you've got SANDAG and the regional board saying, "millions of people are coming to San Diego County, and you Cities have to accommodate them." And so it is a bad struggle and believe us, Carlsbad and other jurisdictions are at SANDAG saying if you guys want us to accept all of this extra traffic, then you need to provide funding. The cities are also asking: where is the State transportation fund? How much is Caltrans participating in the problem? Where is their (Caltrans) expansion plans? What about regional commuter facilities and services? Everyone is kind of pushing and pulling on where the traffic should or shouldn't go. So ifs a very complicated. If you want more information on how to find out about the regional issue, I can refer you to a lot of resources at SANDAG that might help. Mr. Tom Judd: It sounded like what you were saying is, if Carlsbad wants to participate in regional solutions to traffic, you're asking for funds from the State or something like that to mitigate the impact to the community. What is the mitigating factor or requirement for the traffic the proposed development will add to the problem? Mike Grim: In the traffic modeling for this project, we require that all the trips leaving the property be identified. What you then do is track those trips until they are an insignificant portion of the existing traffic on the roadway. As soon as you track the traffic leaving this project, as soon as it gets on interstate 5, then the significance of this project virtually disappears because of the orders of magnitude of traffic volumes on 1-5 compared to this traffic. So the only way to really look at it is in a cumulative effect. Well, the only way to look at it through a cumulative effect is not in a small scale, but in a larger scale. I guess the best thing I could offer would be the litany of studies and experts that SANDAG will have on staff and as consultants. We can refer you to find out more information about that. I think that would answer a lot of your questions. 21. I'M JIM HICKS AGAIN. Hey, how do I get a copy of this here tape? I'm sorry I forgot. Marty Orenyak: We'll give you a copy of whatever she (minutes clerk) gives us. Mr. Jim Hicks: Is she going to give you what she is writing up? Marty Orenyak: Yes. Mr. Jim Hicks: Ok. Do you guys have my name and address? Are you going to mail it to me or call me? Marty Orenyak: We'll contact you and call you to come and pick it up. I don't know how long it's going to take. Mr. Jim Hicks You all have my home phone number? Marty Orenyak: Yes, I think we already have it via a letter you sent us. Mr. Jim Hicks: COMMUNITY INFORMATION FORu.vl AUGUST 17, 2000 Page 18 Ok. Alright, I just wanted to make sure, because no one ever told me about when you dealt with those folks. I was supposed to be called. That's what the mayor told me. He said, we'll get in touch with you and let you know what is going on, when we have these meetings. And no one ever did. Should I call in two days or does this normally take three business days to get done until I can get a copy of it? Debbie Fountain: It will be available probably at the end of next week. Mr. Jim Hick (speaking to the minutes clerk): Are you a subcontractor? Are you a subcontractor or do you work for the City? Debbie Fountain: She works for us and we'll get it (the written record) to you as soon as it is ready. Mr. Jim Hicks: Is she a subcontractor? Debbie Fountain: She's a City employee. Mr. Jim Hicks: Oh, she is a City employee? Ok. Thanks. I would just like to have a copy of it if I could please. Debbie Fountain: We promise to give it to you. Marty Orenyak: Is there anyone else who would like to make a comment or ask a question? (No one raised a hand or came forward to the podium at this time) If not, thank you very much. Again, we'll take your comments and bundle them up and carry them forward to the Planning Commission and City Council meeting. This meeting was completed at 8:30 p.m. JUDY KIRSCH Minutes Clerk Attachment 1 - Minutes of Information Forum 8/17/00 - Photographs submitted by Jim Hicks Attachment 1 - Minutes of Information Forum 8/17/00 - Photographs submitted by Jim Hicks Attachment 1 - Minutes of Information Forum 8/17/00 - Photographs submitted by Jim Hicks CITY OF CARLSBAD PROCESSING OF A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT INFORMATION SHEET jr*~*I~t#mTvr\M^^^ The following provides a brief explanation of how major development projects (specifically residential developments) are processed within the City of Carlsbad: Step One: Developer or property owner (or other applicant) submits a formal application with all of the required plans and exhibits/attachments to the City of Carlsbad. The City is then required to process this development application. Step Two: Staff within several city departments, including Planning, Engineering/Public Works and Fire, complete a comprehensive, detailed review of the proposed project and related application materials. This review is completed to determine whether or not the proposed project meets all applicable development standards, City requirements and other building regulations. Often there are several options a development applicant may have to meet city standards and other requirements. Staff works with the developer to identify the project design which best meets the applicable development standards and other City requirements. Step Three: Once staff has completed its comprehensive review of the project and determines that the project meets all applicable development standards and other City requirements, and the environmental review is complete, the project is scheduled for public hearings before the Planning Commission and City Council as appropriate. As an example, the Thompson/Tabata project proposed by Standard Pacific is a project that requires City Council approval. Therefore, the project will be presented to the Planning Commission for a recommendation from that body. The project, with the Planning Commission recommendation, will then be forwarded to the City Council for final consideration and action. Large residential developments (over 50 units) will require Council approval. Projects under 50 units may be approved by the Planning Commission. Generally, if staff determines that a project meets all applicable development standards and other City requirements, staff will recommend approval. If the project does not, staff will recommend denial. There is no action taken by Planning Commission or City Council to approve or deny a development project until the item is presented and the public has an opportunity to comment on the project during a public hearing. (Please See Other Side for More Information) Attachment 2 - Minutes of Information Forum 8/17/00 - Handout Distributed during Forum Step Four. Once staff has developed its recommendation, a written report is prepared which outlines the project features, conditions of project approval, and other important information such as the environmental review. This report is forwarded to the Planning Commission and ultimately to the City Council for consideration prior to action on a development application. This report is available to the public for review prior to the scheduled public hearing. Step Five: Public Hearings are held before the Planning Commission and City Council as appropriate. All public hearings are noticed in the local newspaper, North County Times. In addition, property owners within 600 feet of the proposed development receive an individual notice of the public hearings(s) via first class mail. Public hearings allow residents and other interested parties the opportunity to present their arguments for or against a project. Agendas for all of the various Boards, Commissions and the Council can be found on the City's Website at www.ci.carlsbad.ca.us. The Planning Commission is scheduled to meet on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of each month. The City Council is scheduled to meet on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Tuesday of each month. Step Six: The City Council's approval or denial of a development project is final. In some cases, the Planning Commission approval of a project may be final. A Planning Commission's denial of a project is final but is appealable to the City Council.