HomeMy WebLinkAbout1952-07-02; Water Committee Ad Hoc; MinutesMinutes of the infonnal meeting held at the Twinn Irnis, Wednesday, J\ily 2nd - Gouncilmen
electf Public UtiUty District officers and Irrigation District Committeee
Presents Eddie Kehtner, Wtlliam Daubney, Larry Shinn, George Qroher, Verne Collins,
Eiwood Trask, C» D» McClellan,, Allan Kelly, Bill Fry, Tad Pahl, Raymond Ede, Manuel
Gastorena, J* Bo Bond,. Robert Sutton, Lena Sutton, Howard fiaumgartner, and X« H» Qron**
aethp Lefty Walters and Art Snyder*
Colonel Gronseth annotmced the meeting was called to discuss one of our most, important
problems - something that the Utility District, The Irrigation Committee and Council-
men elect, should work out together - the problem of securing Colorado River water*
Offered the chair to Mrs, Sutton, who suggested that he continue the meeting with a
summary of irtiat is necessary and irtiat has been done already,
Gronseth: San Diego County Water Authority gave approval to district boundaries con-
stituting approximately 10,000 acres. Roughly bounded, would include North C;fflsbad,
Carlsbad proper to a point on San Marcus Road and thence again easterly two miftes, taking
in some of the Allan and Horace Kelly property, jogs about l/U mile easterly to the
Eentaer Ranch and down along the Hedionda and Los Monas Creek - three miles back to
the section line which separates two sections and at the south end of Agia Hedionda
tTfo miles frcan the coast, on south to the southerly boundary of the lagoon north of
^ Leucadia» Mr# Perry of La Costa has some land in the district and would like to in-
\ elude another five or six hundred acres in the district dr irtiatever is formed to enter
the Water Authority, No doubt the Authority would consent and Burkholder seems to be
favorably impressed with inclusions Just one of the things the coiincil should consider
^en applying to the authority for inclusion either as a district or as a city*
If you apply as a city, you would leave North Carlsbad out; also, exclude land of
Horace and Allan Kelly and some that belongs to Caroli and ^tu would exclude other lands
south of the boundaries of the City of Carlsbad, City includes approlfaately 5,000
acres; the Qistrlct, 10,000,
Problems aret 1« What is cheaper, 2. Question of passing the bond issued f#r
necessary pipe line either as District or as City* Decision is up to the ffouncilmen,
and they must look to the future as they look at the present.
Bob Sutton: Can the City of Carlsbad sell water to North Carlsbad? Colj In general,
N»» In times of plenty, yes; but scarcity, no. Although supplied by Water Company
they would not be entitled to Colorado Water because they W5uld not be taxed for it,
C.D.McVlellant Consider the process in either event - An election must be held In
any agency which seeks admission to the Authority in order to authorize contract? Colt
Yes* Second, whether time or cost could be saved if we can enter as a city rather
than forming a district. We could annex arqr contiguous land which desired annexation
and y&ilcia the dty desired to annex. Coli The question there, whether tiie annexed
Jierritory would pay proper share of burden of improvement imless mKSxAxx annexed prior
to entry, .POD Tax is on land and improveioents, ID expenses of forming
and pipe connection would be taxed on land alone, ID cost excessive tzx due to saliariee
which are set by State at $12 a meeting. PUD can vote salary or nothing - up to members.
Tad Pahlj Tine element. City or DLstrict? C,D,McClellan - Municipality-could apply
from time of forming; ID at least three months, Collins t More like six months before
application could be made. Bob Sutton i And another six months before Metropolitan
Board approval.
Bill Fryt We have tentative acceptance as a Disctrlct - what does that mean? Col:
Just that if such district is organized they will okeh entry,
Lerry Shinn: What about the cost? Col» Colorado water costs kli^ per $100 assessed
valTiation ••••,,,12 acre foot. Pipe line from here to acqueduct would cost
Minutes 7/2/52 - Page
$500,000 if we did it alone. It hasbeen suggested to the Water Authority, they con^
struct pipe line to San Marcus Road, Would service Carlsbad, Encinitas and San Marcus
and each agency could be charged for a certain portion. Authority favored this and it
is possible they will d> it and council should persevere and something night be worked
out. If San Luis Rey Basin goes drier, and Heine property is developed Oceanside will
not have enough capacity,
Mr, Grober suggested privacte line might be built and rented, Colt Authority deal would
cost less - private company would be same idea only more costly,
Allan Kellyj. San Dieguito has reached bonded indebtness; how could they participate?
Col: Not necessary for bond issue, woiad pay back taxes whenever ready to use.
Kentnerj If city goes into Authority, will dry land have a higher valuation? Col:
Land included in district goes up twenty^-five to thltty percerit insaediately. When
water is available, valuation goes up further, Daubneyi: Wotild" assessed valuation
go up if land is annexed to city? Colj Tes, Kentnerj Couln't/S^land be included
to offset North Carlsbad loss? Colt Tes, inclusvion in district is sufficient to
increase valuation, Allan Kellyt Assess valuation would not go up until the line
was in? Dewey McClellant Valuation follows market value - mere inclusvion brings
it up; vrtien pipe line in use, then much higher Increase,
Pahlt Any disadvantages in city applying rather than a district? General discussion
of i^ether or not taxes would be higher and irtiether values would go up more as a city.
Col, Gronseth suggestedi council appoint committee to get costs of irrigation district
inclusion, as against present municipal boundaries,. Should know what it is going to
cost these people if they are annexed or fom a district,
Kentner: Have Authority approve your mxajicipality - induslvion is the first step,
WouldnU you have to have election for district, then for inclusion, but people could
vote immediately as a city, Gastorena». Are there two, elections for an Irrigation
District? Colt No,, one election forms the district and also approves application
for inclusion, Bondt It will take six months to approve or disapprove siter elction;
up to six months to pass on validity and they can ask for changes. Bill Fryt The
Board approved our boundaries if formed, would it take another six months after that?
Coll Yes, the approval was so we could have something to work on'i Fry: Would be
good if time could be avoided. Col: Also, as a city, you bypass the supervisors,
Colt (Answering unidentifed questioner on using PUD ad district) PUD could not be -
used as San Diego Gas & Electirc Company did not want to be included,. Sutton: Would
election change attitude? Would they approve PUD now - city has same tax base?
Colt They would favor inclusion of city in the Metropolitan, there would be only
one tax to Municipality, Fry: Would they pay double tax under PUD and city? Colj
Yes, they would pay both a city and a district tax, Larry Shinnt Would be the same
situation with ID, Golt Yes,
Fryt Would cut expenses to elelMnate both ID and PUD and go in as a city? Colt
ID good only if you go outside the city boundaries, Fryj Los Angeles has neither
PUD or ID, Col: City is big enough to be alone. Fry: Eliminate both and go in
as a city. Col: If you are included as a city and annex dry territory, they will
not pay their proper share, Daubneyj City only. Irrigation District would double
city cost for added few acres. Municipality can annex immediately, ID, six months.
Fry: No water until second barrell in. Col: If we were ready we would have it now,
EDEJ If as an ID, County Board would handle it? Colj Yes, Kellyj Could Municipality
take in up to 10,000 acres and then apply? ' Colj Have city council figure cost either
way, Kellyj $10 per acre cost prohibitive
Minutes 7/2/52 - Page 3^
Pahi What are the mechanics of securing water under city? Colj City Council makes
formal request to the Authority and secures information,
Kentnerj If city acquires right to Colorado water and I have 100 acres contiguous,
and want to come in with my land and pay my proportionate share, can city fumish
this water? Colj Yes, Kentnerj fflien if I don't come in before I would not pay
total taxes? Colj It is questionable, Oceanside said yes bocause back ta^es would
be included on tax roll, Traak: Annijxed land does not pay on back taxes aJready
paid. Col: County sets up back taxes. For annexed land that basic sum is not
changed, so it really helps reduce our back tax load, Kellyt What if we come in
ten years frora now, Colj Would not pay ten years back, only as accepted because
taxes are collected by County not City,
Fry: Lot of leg work done contacting owners in area, then It was reduced to 10,000
acres. Now if you apply for 5,000 only, later ones will be thinking on third barrell»
We know 10,000 is acceptable as ID, but if we apply for 5,000 the other 5,000 will be
gone later and we will have to wait for the third barrel, Colt If we go in with
5,000 approximately, council should double check and get xsKiaaanttsixx recommitment
from Authority for 10,000 . , , Authority cannot stop serving of
annexed territory, Kelly: Definite limit to acre feet available - how much will
it aost dry land to get all of 10,000 acres in? Colt Idea for comiaittee to get
facts,
L, Sutton: ID would include dry land voters too - city election, only city, Colj
Annexation can be done by MWHtii I naw fc jt w^xx council action under uninhabited land -
under twelve votes, Tadj If they are annexed to city, they are full part of
city? Colt Yes, C.D.McClellant Opportunity to annex now. We could give them
no assurance (city votes) would approve, Kellyj Would I pay only for service I
would get? Col: You would pay for more,
C.D.McClellant No action can be taken until council is certified. Why can we not
by common BBDDSBKRt consent get to work? Colj Council can appoint committee to
work immediately, Suttonj How large? Colj Not over thcee,
Edej What Is the feeling here, city or irrigation district? Cost a little more to
annex , but at least five years until water - if $10 per acre cost prohibitive , , ,
, ... ID would include 5,000acres more*
Deweys Council should weigh responsibilities, ImnB<ilate entry as city as opposed
to including other territory, we should consider to whom we owe consideration. To
city, of course. If you include extra territory, give opponents extra ammunition -
present city is PUD so they have no additional kick, COL: We should secure what we
have now, annex later, Shinni If we take in more now, there will be greater oppo"
sition, Kellyj A bigger district would cost less,
LttSuttonj Let's have an expression of oplniont Lefty Waltersj Consolidate what we
havei Larry Shinn: Secure what we have| George Grober j Secure vfaat we have; Verne
Collins: Secure what we have| Elwood Trask: Secure what we have; Kellyt Go ahead
with vhat you've got, go ahead j Fryt Bo on as we are, but try to include more|.
Howard Baumgartnert Colorado River water f*r this town is our first job| Tad
Pahl: I want to know more about it| Bondj (Could not be heard); Art Snyder j Ho
ahead, we'll get further| Ede: As a Municipality,
Col: Survey of cost essential regardless, Gommittee should be appointed,
held a
Councitoen/caucus and appointed C,D,Fleld, J,B,Bond and I,H,Gronseth,