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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1972-01-19; City Council; MinutesI CITY OF MPLSEPD lNUTES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION PLANNING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL ATE OF k3ING: Januar.Y 19 Y 1972 T% OF ~~ETING: 7:30 P. M. @E OF T~ETING; City Council Chambers CALL TO ORDER: An adjourned meeting of the City Counci 1 , Januar.y 18, 1972, the Plan-. I ning Commission, January 11, 1972, and the requesting Parks and Rec- reation Commission, January 17, 1972, was called to order for joint session by Chairman Betty Wollrich, 7:30 P.M., January 79, 1972 in City Counci 1 Chambers. ROLL CALL: Chai rman Woll rich directed the recording secretary to call the roll of attendant Commissioners and Councilmen. Parks and Recreation Commission: Present xxxxx Absent--none. Planning Commission: Present--Chairman E. H. Jose --Jack L. Forman s --Robert T. Little --Roy H. Palmateer --Donald K. Dewhurst --E. W. Dominguez Absent---Ni lliam B. Hermsen City Counci 1 : Present--Mayor David M. Dunne --Vi ce Mayor G1 enn E. McComas --Cmn. J. E. Jardine --Cmn. Joe A, Castro --Cmn. Claude A. Lewis Absent--none. PRESENTATION : Chairman Cdol1,rich stated that in the manner of conduct, the meeting Mould be addressed by attendant members and their associates of the San Diego County Park Development’ Division of the Pub1 i c Works Agency presenting a final report of a Regional Parks Implementation Program Study as it effects the City of Carlsbad. Questions and comments 1 dould follow this presentation in the method of a pub1 ic hearing. Chairman Woll rich named the following San Diego County representa- tives: I James Tennant, Office of the Administrator, PW Agency Robert W. Smothers , PW Agency Edwin J. Moses , County Park Development Director, PW Agency David C. Williams, Senior Associate, Development Research Samuel W. Bri dgers , Landscape Architect, Cornel 1 y Bri dgers ,I Ass oci a tes Troller ti Hazlett Zhai rman Woll rich i ntroduced Mr. Moses. Yr. Moses stated the final report of. the Regional Parks Implementa- tion Program Study would be presented to the County Board of Super- visors in meeting of February 2, 1972. The Board of Supervisors has invited all municipalities in the County to participate in this pre- sentation meeting. Moses amplified Part I or the Introduction pages of the report, gessing that consultants and Mr. Smothers have coordinated with departments of parks and recreation, city managers, city engineers y nuperous jurisdictions or organizations before analyzing needs and su~ table areas for development. He stated County park planners are 1 CITY OF CA,QLSB!D NlES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION CONMISSION PLANNING COMMISSION + -rc 0 -p <*% -% TE OF ?&ET'IPlG: January 19, 1972 CITY COUNCIL ?yf& % $ \"Y +*\ ME OF kETING: 7:30 f'. Me ACE OF PkETING: city Council Chambers ?gional Park should the County Board of Supervisors act in favor of le existing study, final report. -. Moses introduced Mr. Williams. *. Williams stated that his organization's object in a year of study 1 i_ 1s to project size, priority for development, park inclusions and inancing methods for 19 sites specified in an approved 1967 General Ian (including one (1 ) additional site, San Eli jo Lagoon) for County Igional park expansion. He applauded what he termed a new concept in igional park planning, whereby each developed site becomes a component ' a total system. scussing Part II of the report, Recreation Demand, Mr. Williams ;ated that a major defic6ency exists in provisions for beach camping , the need is projected by Stxte surveys. Figures project that by 180 twenty-three million people wi 11 invade beach camping areas from mta Barbara south. State owned areas can be developed to accomodate Ily ten to fifteen percent of this projected demand. Therefore, ;udied emphasis for County regional 'park development has been directed )wards three lagoon areas (Batiqui tos , San Eli jo abd Agua Hedionda) t the matter of provisioning water-oriented recreation and camping. mtinui ng with a discussion of total. County park needs , Mr. Williams ;ated a regional park system would need to meet about 35% of the total wand for active use development (picnicking through overnight camp- Ig)--the balance to be supplied by National , State and local parks 'stems. To meet this need- 53,000 acres wi 11 be required by 1990 and '1 1 be distributed by use of a gravity model to determine where people 11 go because of where they live now or will be living by 1990. sed on the projections of how many people would visit each site, ndscape architects created detailed plans of how big each park site ~ . ould be to the years ,1980 and 1990. (Plans of. 19 sites of the mprehensi ve .Regional Park P1 an of 1967 were on display on the walls . ' the Chamber;.) 1. Williams introduced Mr. Bridgers. I. Bridgers analyzed possible land use within the areas proposed as !gional parks or ecological preserves. Amp1 ifyi ng the report , Mr. -idgers stated a proposed high school site adjacent to Calavara is )mpatible in that a,swimming pool could serve, jointly, a school dis- *ict and a park. \developed parameter lands at lagoons--adduced ecclogical preservss-- lould be purchased to extend general recreation and campground faci- ' i ties to he1 p meet the demands for beach camping. :rids north and east of Calavara are recommended for purchase to pro- de off-road vehicle (ORV) use. Lake Morena, Guajome, Sycamore Can- In and Otay Reservoir areas will be studied for motorized scooter par Icl us i ons . ltiqui tos should be held in the public domain and be opened to the :ean to improve the quality of the lagoon. ,airman Woll ri ch asked if there would be presentations by County 'ficials , Tennant and Smothers. The presentation was declared complet; Id the meeting opened for question and comment from 'the floor. Page 2 of 8 diately prepared to draft detailed study plans for a Lake Calavara 1 ., ~ D xx . xx . xx CITY OF WLSBfiD NLWS OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSIOfiI EE OF P'E~.ING: January 19, 1972 ACE OF &ETING: City Council Chambers Page 3 of 8 PLANNING COPiMISSION CITY COUNCIL ME OF !kETING: 7:30 p. M. IC HEARING: I ~ Juestions and comments are edited for duplication , not quotation. ) uestion: (Cmn. Jardine) This question is directed to qny o.ue of the speakers. Can you advise our joint bodies if you envision a joint program with -the State to secure more control on. State beaches or to work out .an acceptable use program of beaches? nswer : (Mr. Moses) As a result of anticipated withholding tax funds (40 to 50 mi 1 lion) , a major program has been devel oped by the State asking for the cooperation of all levels of government to faci 1 i tate acquisition of land and its develop- ment for recreational uses. We have recommended that the County accept the responsibi- li ty of planning the beach and shoreline utilization of Sari Diego County and that it not be solely a State function. This is a recommendation in the present study. We will pro- gram funds the coming fiscal year to complete that study. . lestion: Do you have any figures about the.length of coastline, developable and avai 1 able, for public use from Orange County south. lswer : The actual figures escape me but are less than one-quarter of the 90 mile distance. Much of the area is not beach with a high waterline against the bluff or cliff. The County has a policy for beach access. Wherever there is development in an unincorporated area , there is a require- ment that the developer provision beach access every 1/3 of a mile. Presently, surveyors are identifying those access routes in existence and designating proposed ones. to meet .. pol icy standards. Jestion: (Mayor Dunne) Thank you for your fine presentation. Mr. Moses, since it is my understanding this program study wi 11 be presented for approval or no to the County Board of Supervisors as early as February 2 , 1972 , it is my opinion a committee of elected officials and commissioners from this joint group should meet and confer with you before that date. Your concepts in certain respects, particularly as to 1 and acquisition at Lake Calavara and Hosp Grove is about 1800 different from the thinking of .this Council. I .would like to have a meeting -wi th you, gentlemen , Ms. Woll rich, Vice Mayor McComas and P1 anning Commission , . Chai 1"- man Jose to go over some of the differences in. what you .. conceive and what we conceive, primarily, as to acquisition , extent and other features. I can see where we can get at cross purposes. We, and I believe I can.speak for the Counci 1 , are totally in agreement that we need regional parks , but in the matter of method and scope this report must be viewed with ci rcumspection. lswer ' : (Mr. Moses) We are in agreement and wi 11 make ourselves avai 1 ab1 e. Jestion:, (Mr. Stanbro, 1801 Avocado Road, Oceanside) Does a region- al park development at Batiqui tos Lagoon include land at. the north end of beach access to the 1 agoon? It would appear a jetty at this point could create sand shift for. a usable beach. 0 nswer : (Mr. Williams) A hydrological study is a necessity for . sev.era1 areas a1 ong the coast, and we anticipate coopera- tion with the State and an Army Corps of Engineers in this CITY 3F WLSDFD NLTES OF:. Adjourned Meeting : PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION PLANNING COFlMISSION %& ?%%@% TE OF /%E?ING: JanK3r.Y 19, 1972 CITY COUNCIL yg$ipJ& v\ p ACE OF f'kETING: City Council Chambers Page 4 of 8 matter. Certainly the opening of Batiqui tos to the ocean would be a major consideration in a comprehensive study. For / :r the purpose of this study report we address ourselves only i to the fact that if Batfqui tos is to be a good lagoon, some- I thing must be done at the ocean opening. ~ (Mr. Stanbro continuing) I was concerned about your refer-. ence to Buena Vista Lagoon as. an ecological reserve , but was satisfied when a subsequent reference made it a partial one. . A1 ready there is fi 11 being done between the beach and the RR right-of-way, and use permits have been granted by the Cities of Oceanside and Carlsbad which effect future land acquisition for regional parks or ecolqgical reserve pur- poses. This should be clarified for the Board of Supervi- sors. This plan does not reflect filled areas for the development of Jefferson Street and Marron Road or an anticipated rip- rap wall ed Buena Vista Creek channel from Plaza Cami no Real west and effecting both the Cities of Carlsbad and Oceanside (Mr. Williams continuing) Studies conducted_of..the Ti juana Channel have shown riprap walls are not needed. There is a possibility a similar situation exists for the Buena Vista f 1 ood channel . ME OF REETING: 730 p. M. .. .. mment : (Mayor Dunne) Studies show that fi 11 ing on either side of the channel will necessitate provisioning for a water run- off to avoid flooding of Jefferson and Hill Streets at high flood times. Proposed use of the land requires the fill, the fill dictates provisioning for run-off. uestion: (Corn. Chr. Jose) First let me say I concur with Mayor Dunne about the necessity to meet and confer. Did I form the correct impression with reference Lake Cal avara 1 ands for regional park development? Does the County wish to purchase these lands? nswer : (Mr. Moses) The County would request the land be made avail- able by the City for development by the County. For the purposes of this report the term 'acquisition' may mean other than purchase. omment -: (Mayor Dunne) Mr. Jose would make the point that Lake Calavara acreage is owned by 15,000 people. It isn't as though we can give away this land, he1 d as security . against existing water bond indebtedness , wi thout going toc-a vote.,,. 07 the.;peopl e. nswer : (Mr. Moses) What we have had to do in some instances is tto acquire land by revertible purchase. Which is to say, if ' - ' the bond holder sued for the bonds , making the sale in- valid, the County would agree to return the land. We have 'written this revertible agreement in the purchase of Lake Morena and Lake Otay lands. We will have to do this in order to develop others of the proposed areas because of a deliberate choice of watered areas for regional develop ment--these making outstanding sites for recreational use , and natural open-space preservation. I) xx ... . -.. xx ' xx CITY OF WLSBI\D NLTES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS Arm RECREATION corwssIon1 PLANNING C0MI:IISSION CITY COUNCIL TE OF %ETING: Januar.Y 19, 1972 ME OF r'&-ING: 7:30 P. M. ACE OF !!kETING: City Council Chambers Page 5 of 8 . , 23 Development is possible with leasing. The only problem is we do have to mai ntain a 1 ong enough vested interest in the! 1 and to justify application for State or Federal funds. When we develop with County bond money or from the general fund shorter term leases or almost any kind of agreement could suffice between the interested parties. mment : * (Mayoi- Dunne) The City has gone on- record recommending - .. Calavara , either whole or in part, as a fine area for a rec:- reational faci 1 i ty of a regional nature which would benefit: a large segment of the North County society. But in this instance, you are asking Carlsbad to-make-a. vajor s.acrifice in providing 1 and to benefit bordering communi ties that would be making no apparent simi 1 ar contribution. i ~ swer : (Mr. Moses) Correct, but there is another side to it. Thle funds for devel oping a Calavara Regional Park , setting apart the two or three mil lion dollars. for land, will take a capi- tal investment of four,to eight mil lion doll ars and create a resource with unique values to be felt directly by the people of Carlsbad. I think it is a well proven .fact that people 1 ook to the amenities of an area before selecting a site for home,. industry etc. ; thus Carlsbad would benefit greatly in economic stature because of three enhanced natura faci 1 i ties . Jestion: (Mayor Dunne) How do you plan to acquire Agua Hedionda? swer : (Mr. Moses) It would probably have to be done with straightt out purchase--thus the recommended five year wait as indi- cated by the report. mment : (Mayor Dunne) You have a problem on your hands. To be con-, si'dered here, also, i.s a State recommendation for a desal- inization plant, east of 1-5 a1on.g the south shore of Agua Hedionda, though expressed opposition on the part of City factions is strong. mment : (Mr. Lamb, 51 71 Shore Drive) As a major 1 and owner of property on the north sh,ore of Batiquitos (100 acres) this report and resultant presentation is of special interest to me. I feel the County is over optomistic in its timed planning .for Batiqui tos in view of a California Polytechnic: College, Pomona, study of lagoons in the County. The Cal- Poly report nul lifies Batiqui tos as a living l agoon for ecological preservation and reports that one million cubic yards of bottom material would' be removed in conjuntion with creating an opening to the moving waters of the ocean ' before a 1 i vi ng 1 agoon for water recreation development is even a possibility. The report recommends development with good land use management,, to which I concur. The R.P.I.P. Study time-cost analysis for the development of this lagoon is questionable, as is the sand resource idea. The sand repositioning theme is not supportable in view of natural erosion movements. Trying to create beaches by fill would have the same effect as pouring water over powdered sugar. Dredging to the ocean is complicated by an effect on existing 1 i fe there and the provings of . existing hydrological experimentation and ,recommendation. Considerable professional information is essential before consideration is given to means to finance a regional park development at Batiqui tos Lagoon. I anticipate the annexation of the north part of Batiqui- tos Lagoon lands to Carlsbad, whose knowledge of lagoons is great and whose land use planning and regulations (including a ' parks in 1 ieu' fee ordinance) are advanced I). CITY OF CAPLSYD NUES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSIOM PLANNING COMi4ISSION * -F 0 -y -$J -+ JE OF kETING: January 19, 1972 CITY . ' .. COUNCIL \yy& -$ %Ys+o.Gy ACE OF 1"'k:ETING: City Council Chambers* Page 6 of 8 . . and good. A master plan for this area has been started as a result of my request to Mayor Dunne. There are mu1 ti pl e / 'r plans and existing conditions that would change the face of the R. P. I. P . Study recommendations . 'hanking Mr. Lamb, Chairman Wollrich stated 'parks in lieu' fees are I ppl ied. to a zoned Carlsbad. Fees are used for park and open-space levelopment in the zones from which whey are generated. 'uestion: (Comm. Huffman) What does Mr.- Lamb propose for Batiquitos ~ ME OF ~ETING: 730 p. M. 2 4 1 Lagoon? nswer : (Mr. Lamb) I have been to1 d studies have been done of the 1 agoon for marina possi bi 1 i ti es . For 2n.y kind of water rec- reation use dredging is. a necessary factor as is the case with the harbor at Oceanside and Agua Hedionda Lagoon. Possibly some industry is possible if it is compatible with the 1 and and its people. Development is dependent upon engineering a feasibility studies. Qd omment : (City Manager Arnold) Land use for Batiqui tos and all the sites being discussed. tonight must evolve as the result of cooperati on between government agenc-i es and parameter 1 and owners. (Approaching the maps) Here are some ideas with regard thle development of 1 agoons and the Cal avara Lake area. 'Parks in lieu' fees have been or will be generated by development., and in the case of Batsquitos and Agua Hedionda might best be used to enhanc.e the perimeters of the lagoons and promot active water recreation. We agree a thorough study of an access to the ocean, as would be natures way, is of primary importance at Batiqui tos. .Much of the parameter of Agua Hedionda is developed' or corn,- mitted. Approximately one hundred acres -with water frontalg in the southeast corner is a 1 i kel i hood for regional park development. Land acquisition-timing in the County projec,- tion is a factor here. Much of the land at the 'Buena Vista Lagoon that figures in the study is committed already or anticipated for commer- cial development. The open-space corridor with its 1 i nkagle to Calavara, especially as it applies to this lagoon and Hosp Grove, is in jeopardy, though the concept is a good one which could enhance the property owners ' land. ORV development just east of El Cami no Real Plaza and road as discussed by Mr. Bridgers would be on some extremely ' ' valuable land. Mr. Kelly, with the chai rman permitting, I would 1 i ke to I hear your comments on this study; since you are a major 1 and owner in this area. mment : (Mr. Allan Kelly, Carlsbad) The concept is questionable in that it commits a City and property owners 1 i ke myself to less return on an investment than is economically or equi tibly sound. It would seem to me something is back- wards. The plan is conceived before the money to buy a , reality. Your surveys to the people indicate beach parks a number one request , yet a complete study of the County beaches is not a consideration in this stud.y . I have offered the County any cooperation feasibly possible with regard the beautification of County rights-of-way across. my property, but have never been contacted by any faction of the Public Works Agency with regard this offering or .' because of this study. b CITY OF CAPILSBflD NWIES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSIOM PLANNING COMMISSION CITY cow" TE OF fkETING: JanUar.Y 19, 1972 ME OF !kETING: 7:30 P. M. ACE OF PkETING: City Counci 1 Chambers [(lstion: (Mr. Glomb, James Drive, Carlsbad) Before a question I wi: Page 7 of 8 to state that I discern no real need at this time to con- sider the development of Agua Hedionda Lagoon for harbor purposes. My chief concern at this time and with reference to your study concerns provisioning off-road vehicle or primarily motorcycle parks. I was pleased to hear the County group refer to motorcycle recreation as a 'here-to-sta,y' one that should be provisioned in the proper area to benefit the distressed citizenry, the police and the participants them- selves. Mr. Arnold questioned the recommendation by the County of the use of high value property just to the east (of the Plaza Camino Real. What consideration has been given the southeast corner of the Calavara acreage? nswer : (Mr. Williams) Again, this question deals with the detai1:s in planning which are not of precise consideration .in this study. Here, we simply recognize the need for ORV facili t:y development within the regional park complex. . At a time when single park planning is instituted, mu1 tiple studies conducted, the positioning of facilities for such activi ty as ORV use, overnight camping, picnicking, etc are subject to detailed scrutiny. For example, before a regional park at Batiqui tos could be detailed, a primary study would be a hydrological one. omment : (Mr. Kelly) I would hope a hydro1 ogi cal study of any one of the lagoons for opening to the ocean would show that twlo parallel jetties .is far from what nature does y but that a venturi opening, negated by the Army Corps of Engineers , proves itself in actuality and in model . uestion: (Mayor Dunne) Is the County responsible for all .costs to ,operate its regional parks--uti 1 i ties y pol ice and fire . .- protection , etc. ? nswer : (Mr.' Williams). In,these instances, no. omment : (Mayor Dunne) Again I point out, you are asking the City ., of Carlsbad to carry the major part of a fi nanci a1 burden to benefit all of North County. uestion: (Chairman Wollrich) After an approval of a study such as this, how would you finance the projects? nswer : (Mr. Williams) A bond would be the recommendation after a detailed evaluation can be accomplished. uestion: (Comm. Long) Is there any a1 ternate to fi nanci ng with bond moni es? nswer : (Mr. Williams) Conceivably a combination of County, State, Municipal and matching Federal funds could finance an open- space development of this scope. omment : (Comm. Lance) In all due respect to questioners and com- menters I wish to remind and state that the development of Lake Cal avara as a park 3s of such magni tude it is un- . likely the City of Carlsbad could provision what the C0unt.y has proposed for years if at all. It 'would seem to m should look on the positive side and consider with every means available a proposal of assistance. b ..I, CITY OF WJ-SYB NUES OF: Adjourned Meeting: PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION PLANNING COClMISSION CITY COUNCIL iTE OF %ETING: January 19, 1972 ME OF ~ETING: 730 p. M. ACE OF &ETING: city Council Chambers Page 8 of 8 . rman Wol lrich asked for further questions or comment. There being one other than offers of amenity to the County group for their parti- I ipation, the meeting stood adjourned at 10:15 P.M. DJOURNMENT: 10 : 15 P . M. espectful ly sutjmi tted'. I AH;&. .c . &<A/d i rginjA Schul dt, Recording Secretary he Parks and Recreation Commission. .. ., .: .. .. 1