HomeMy WebLinkAbout1960-11-22; Planning Commission; Minutes1-
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MLZJUTES OF i.X Y,XXLAii MEXZ'ING \Jr
CXRLSCXD CITY A 1,; rJKINC< CCNNISSION
November i?.r 1560
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P.M. by Chairman Jarvie. Present be-
sides the Chairman were Commissioners Davis, Kistler Grant and Ward. Absent,
Cmissioner Hardwick. Commissioner Hughes arrived at 7:40.
mrova1 of Winutes - of November 9, 15'52. Chairman Jarvie requested thpt Sen-
tence 1, Paragraph 4 under ILan 6 on Page 4 be changed to read as follows:
"There WPS considerable discussion about the fact that the property in this
area had been penalized by the freeway and that any uses in an R-3 zone would
be substPndard and he felt that the city should help these property owners by
being mbre flexible."
Chairman Jarvie also requested that Paragraph 4 on Page 3 be changed to read
as follows:
'Thainnan Jarvie pointed out to Mr. Baird that these men really have a plan
and asked if he didn't think it wes a place to start and then others wanting
a reclassification could make a request for R-T or Comercial for properties
fronting on the lagoon."
Chairman Jarvie also requested that the last sentence in Paragraph 7, Page 3
be changed to read as follows:
Isft was decided that the property owners could get together and present a
request for a zone change for the rest of them if they so desired."
A motion was made by Commissioner Kistler and seconded by Ccmtnissioner Ward
th$t.:the,thiriutes be approved as amended. All eyes, motion carried.
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3- Written Comnunications:
There were no written comrmnications.
4- Oral Cmunications:
DON HOLLY, 2601 State St., Carlsbad, representing Kimberly Investments, stated
that they would like to have the Commission consider a tentative map on
Shelter Cove Subdivision. He said they were facing a serious time element as
they had a December 15th deadline to meet and in view of the tremendous de-
velopment planned, something should be done tonight. The zone change had not
been approved yet but that they were respectfully requesting that the Coma
mission at least consider the matter of the tentative map.
Chairman Jarvie said that the Commission would consider the matter under Item
C8, New Business.
5- HEARING - REVOCATION OR MODIFICI?TIOM OF e Resolution #702 of the City Council
CLJNDITION~~L USE PHd'IIT to consider modificption or revoca-
tion of the Conditional Use i'ermit
issued to Carlsbad Union Church allow-
ing recreation area, construction of
an ornamental wall and chain link
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". "_".""-."- %rice and use of Sunday School build-
~~ - ir,o ,&" for .. - rre-school "..."" day nursery on as
...*""""._. dsc.cii?xrl a; ints 21,22,23,24 and 25
BLoci: 58 Carlsbsd Lands according to -."-.J-. Map thereof NQ. 1744 in the City of
Notice of hearing was read. The Secretary certified as to publication of
notice of hearing and the mailing of notices to property owners in the area.
There were 7 pieces of correspondence plus a petition on this matter.
Letter dated November 4, 1960 from Mrs. William Bigley stating that as owner
of a rental unit at 3132 Jefferson St. she was opposed to having night time
activities so close to a residence as working people retire early and the lights
and noise from a playground are disturbing.
Letter dated November 21,1960 from Doane and Grace Harrison stating that they
were protesting the granting of permission for the Union Church to have a play-
ground and nursery school as they have interest in property on the southeast
corner of Jefferson and Oak Streets including a rental unit. They felt it was
inconsiderate to the property owners in this area and stpted that there is a
Boy's Club available for the proposed activities.
Letter dated November 22, 1960 from Rhea Blackburn, stating th-t they were
tenants of Nr. Eli Johnson and planned to stay there but felt compelled to move
when they becme aware of the plans of the Union Church because they did not
feel they could stand the noise.
Letter dated November 21, 1960 from Mr. and Mrs. George S. Lombard stating
that as property owners on Harding St. they felt both the nursery school and
playground would constitute a nuisance for reason of noise and the project
was unnecessary and unfair.
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Letter dated November 18, 1960 from Mrs. Rhea Bachrach protesting the play-
ground so close to where she lives on Harding Street for reasons of noise.
Letter,rko date, from Mr. and Mrs. Guy Keene, 3146 Harding St. protesting the
playground and pre-school day nultsery as they felt the noise would be disturb-
ing and that this was not a suitable location for such things. ?
Petition protesting the Conditional Use Permit signed by 27 property Owners
within the 300 feet radius and 20 signatures of other property owners in the
City of Carlsbad.
THE REV. ROY BROKENSHIRE, P.0. Box 217 stated that he thought the original
application should be read and also the list of supporting names.
The Chairman directed the Secretary to read the application and the names
supporting it and also Mr. Brokenshire's letter which accompanied the application,
MR. BROKENSHIRE stated that he thought that covered everything and that there
is always a problem with any growth in a comnunity. People are afraid of some-
thing that is not going to happen. He said they would not use the playground
every day in the week, perhaps one day a week in the basketball season. He
presented a letter from the Department of Public Welfare of San Diego County,
addressed to Mr. Gene Warren, Assistant Minister of Carlsbad Union Church,
stating they felt the Day Nursery would make a real contribution to the cow
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rrmnity, that a license is required by anyone cering for unrelated children
anywhere but in their own home, a fact not generally kgmm, and that they ge.t
many calls from working mothers for such a type of day nursery. lle went on to
say that the children would be 4 to 5 years of age, not more than 15 or 20 of
them at the most. They would be inside the building but would have to get out-
side for a time in the morning and afternoon. He felt that the value the com-
munity would gpin from this far outweighs any problems arising from it. He
stated that they tried to be good neighbors ard that tho, people who object to
this think it will be an every night affair which it won’t be.
THE REV. GENE WARREN, P.O. Box 217, stated that he thought it might be inter- esting to the Cmission that out of 739 pre-school nurseries, 1/3 are church
sponsored. There are none in Carlsbad’ There is a need for one and it is a C
church related function.
MR5. ELI 2. JOHNSON, 987 Oak Avt?., stated that she wished to submit her objccsd
tions to the proposed plans of the Union Church. One of the floodlights is on the wall 15 feet from their rental’s front door. There is a 6 foot wall and
the church is asking to put a 6 ft. wire fence on top of this and she felt it
would be an eyesore to the tenants, reswbling a concentration camp. She does
not feel that the fence is ornamental and also felt that no amount of super-
vision could keep down the noise of children and teenagers at play. She stated
that due to the playground plans they had lost wery good tenants who had sub-
mitted a letter to that effect. Furthsr the church had installed 2 basketball
fixtures which had been removed by order of the City Hall. She feels they
have lost rental income which is necesszry €or therr. ctc they are in their seven-
ties and her husband*s pension is very small - They have no talr cxemprion such
as the church has. She feels that no on? would pay rent to live so close to
the noise of little children playing all day and that the Boy’s Club has eveq
possible facility for boys from the ages of 7 to 18 years pius there is the
Fine Street School grounds with play facilities, Holiday Park and Carlsbad
High School, which has basketball, tennis, etc. Teenagers also have the
privilege of using the Junior College. She stated that the church builclings were large enough so that the day school children could play in there.
MRS. KENNETH R. OVER’0:N, 3946 Lin Mar Lane, stated that a brick wall cannot
stop noise, it would have to be a building. She mid at first there were not
many floodlights and that supervision can not keep down noise. Everybody likes
to see children play but they do not want them to be annoying. We have sever-
al playgrounds which had been mentioned. There were a great many names on the
petition and these are the people wha will be Pffected by the proposed plans
of the church. She agreed that a nursery sdhool was necessary in this connrmn-
ity but did it have to be in this location?
MRS. ALICE KANUNDSEN, 855 Oak Ave, stated that she was a property owner,
a tax payer and a native Californian. She wished to submit her objections
to the plans as the noise of small children at play during the day and the
teenagers at night with floodlights surrounding the lot: could create a problem
and jeopardize the renting of their properties. She objected to the fence on
top of the wall which she felt would make the tenants feel they were in a
concentration camp. Due to this factor they had lost their rentals and their
taxes had been raised considerably, which taxes they would not be able to
pay without the tental incone, since they had no exemptions, and the cost of upkeep had increased. She stated th:t she was a 72 year old widow and needed
the rental income to carry her along and tenants would not live where there
was too much noise. She fmls thsre am avple play areas with recreational
facilities, Pine Street, the Boy's Club and the beach area. The plan was heart- less and unjust causing her much worry and anxiety and the church was a place
to worship, not to play, She added that the church has a nice large nursery
school adjoining the church grocnds with a nearby playground where the children
could play. She concluded by saying she prayed this could be defeated so that
they could keep their property rented and lbad a normal life.
MR. FLENN FEIST, 110 N. Ditmar, Oceanside, stated he was a member of the BChOOl
board and that he had lived on Magnolia Street almost 5 years ago and the people
there had not felt that a play area hurt the ares. In a city like Carlsbad
he felt we should think of places for the children to play and this is what the
Carlsbad Union Church has in mind. He thought there had been a lot of mis-
understanding about this, that they did not want to hurt anyone in the area,
just to use the property to foster the growth of these children. They did not
have any intention of hurting tenant or property owners and they were there
tonight to show that their intentions were of the best. This property was ad- quired for church purposes and a play ground area is what a church should go
for. They were there to answer any questions.
MR. BKOKENSHIRE stated that a great deal had been said about the wall and as
a matter of fact the wall had been placed there because the law says there must
be a wall on a parking lot. There had been a rusty old fence there. They had
asked what the authorities would like for a wall and thought they might like
shrubbery. At first the city had said they did not need a variance. Mrs.
Johnson and neighbors knew what was going on and waited until the bulldozers
came in and then protested. A new city manager had come in and felt that they
were not able to do this without a permit. Because they had started the work,
they let them go ahead with a part of it. They have followed the suggestions of
the city in the improvements of the property. They have spent a lot more than
they would have had they just gone ahead with a wooden fence. At one place
there are 64 apartments and 32 are empty. They are not empty because there is
a playground next to them. They have not had a playground in the area fsr
over a year and it is just a fear of what will be, not of anything that has
actually happened.
MRS. JOHNSON stated that there was not a rusty fence on her property, that thej
had a nice wood fence. In the rentals there is B family with four little
children who would not be able to sleep at night if boys were let loose till
after 9 P.M. You could not live within 15 feet of such noise. There was a
bible class there last smer and the noise was terrible.
The public hearing was closed at 8:30 P.M.
Commissioner Grant asked if Mr. Brokenshire had gone around and got the sig-
natures himself of those supporting his application and he stated that he had.
He then asked Mr. Brokenshire if the people had been put on notice as to what
they were signing and Mr. Brokenshire replied that they had.
MR. BROKENSHIRE remarked that some of the names on the list tonight had no
relationship to tile property whatsoever. They did not want the Johnsons End Mrs. Amundsen to go to any expense at their age and went ahead and did what
they wantedj
There was some discussion as to why these people had not objected before if
they were objecting now.
MR. EXOKENSMIRE explained that hz hed bra:lght up the fact that the Johnsons
and Mrs. Amcndsen objected at th last henring on this matter.
Commissioner Hughes asked if there was any supervision on the public school
grounds after school hours.
MR FEIST stated that someone from the youth organization that is using the
school grounds has to be there to supervise. During the day there is always
someone from the school to supervise.
After some discussion on this matter Comnissioner Ward stated that he would
like to ask why the people who signed the original petition had changed their
minds.
The Secretary read the dates on the petition as to when
it.
MR. BROKENSHIRE stated that if these people had chmged
because something had been said to them to change their thought if he could go back to them they would sign his
the people had signed
their minds it was
minds. He said he
petition again.
You have the Catholic Church, the Assembly of God Church, the library, etc.
there and if the people have changed their minds it is because it has been agio
tated to them.
Conmissioner Grant stated that the hearing was being held on two points, and
asked if the people being 15 ft. away would be willing to grant a part of this.
MRS. JOHNSON said that since there was a good playground on the other side
of the church, let them have their day school nursery and play over there.
She said that she had gone to the people and read her petition to them and
that is why they had changed their minds.
MR. FEIST stated that he felt they should consider the teen agers as they were
more important than the nursery School,
Comissioners Hughes and Ward stated they were in favor of the church's request
and Conmissioner Grant stated it was a fine program but he wished it were not within 15 feet of property owners that had to be considered because it was
their living. Comnissioner Kistler was in favor of the church's request and Commissioner Davis stated that in 24 hours, it would be very few hours this
property would be used as a play ground, and that the amount of noise would
be limited. He could not find any reason in the ordinance that would give a
reason to deny this request. .
A motion was made by Commissioner Davis and seconded by Commissioner Hughes
to adopt Resolution No. 188 upholding their original decision on this appli-
cation for the following reasons:
. -.
1. That there are exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions
applicable to the property or to the intended use that do not apply gener-
ally to the other property or class of use in the same vicinity and zone.
2. That the granting of such conditional use permit will not be materially
detrimental to the public welfare or injurious to the property or improve-
ments in such vicinity and zone in which the property is located.
3. The granting of such conditional use permit will not adversely affect
the corprehensive general plan.
The Chairman asked for a roll call vote.
AYES: Commissioners Davis, Kistler, Ward and Hughes
NOES: Chairman Jarvie and Commissioner Grant
ABSENT: Commissioner Hardwick
Resolutioq No. 188 failed to pass for lack of a majority vote.
At 9 P.M..a short recess was called. Reconvened at 9:lO P.M.
6- STREET VACATION:
The Secretary reported to,the Commission that Henry Players Investments, Snc.
had requested that the street vacation be continued to the next regular meet-
ing of the Planning Comission as Mr. Kay Kalicka, who was to represent them
was ill. It was agreed to continue the street vacation to the meeting of
December 13th.
7- Old Business:
DON HOLLY said that as he had stated before, it was very important for them to
have some sort of decision on Shelter Cove Subdivision tonight 80 that it
could come before the City Council at their Dec. 6th meeting as they have to
come up with a sizeable amount of money by Dec, 15th. He stated that no re-
ports had come in from the utility companies and departments yet and that the
City Engineer had not had time to give his report on it. The map thet the
Commissioners had in front of them was a Marina type development with small
port operations. The approval of the map would be contingent upon the approval
of the zone change, and there could be a conditional type of approval. There
will be street dedication, street drainage and sewage and they were aware of
this.
The SBcretary stated that he waa most sympathetic with this but that the prop-
erty owners had not been notified and this was a technicality that must be met.
MR. CARL SANBORN, 811 N. Broadway, Santa Ana, stated that they would not have
definite approval of the zone change until the council met.
MR. RA.Y WOOD, Law Bldg,, S. Anaheim stated that he would like to review the
situation. They had gone into the purchase of this land in October and then
applied for a zone change. Mr. Sanborn had come down to the meeting and the
Comission asked for a delay on this SO that it could be considered by the
Comnission as a whole. They have their program and considerable money in-
volved and a 90 day escrow. The main thing is that they were delayed at the
October meeting. On November 9th they had come to the meeting and it had been
approved, Now they are faced with thefact that they are two weeks behind and
as far as notifying the property owners, they were all there on November 9th.
He went on to say that as far as the report from the engineering department
and the other recommendations, they would go along with anything included in
the recommendations and that the Cmission could make their approval condition-
al upon this. He stated they would put in a temporary pumping station.
Chairman Jarvie stated that all the adjoining property owners were for this
development but that the Commission did not want to do anything they shouldn't,
and suggested an adjourned meeting to consider the tentative map.
Commissioner Grant steted that they would do everything in their power to see
that this got through and would do nothing to hinder it in any way. It was
decided to have an adjourned meeting on Monday, November 28, 1960 at 7:30 P.M.
MR. HOOD thanked the Commissioners for everything they were doing,
a. Objectives and Policies, ,Part 1.
It was moved by Commissioner Davis and seconded by Commissioner Hughes that the
San Diego Planning Department be notified thpt the Planning Cmission favored
Alternate B in the booklet. All ayes, one absent. Motion carried.
b. Women's Repional Planning Club.
The Secretary stated that he had received a telegram from the Women's Regional
Planning Club and they had asked him to appear on television.
8- New Bushess:
Mr. Thornton, the Assistant City Engineer, asked the Planning Commission khat
their policy on Sidewalks in cul-de-sacs was going to be as, in two subdivisiorrq
with cul-de-sacs, one had been required to have sidewalks and one had not.
Chairman Jarvie stated that the Council stated all subdivisions should have
sidewalks. The Secretary stated that the Comnission had been merely carrying
out the policy established by the Council. There was some discussion among._
the Commission about this matter and the consensus was that there should be
sidewalks.
9- By proper motion the meeting was adjourned at 9:SO to 7:30 P.M., Monday, Nov-
ember 28th, at the City Council Chambers for the purpose of considering the
tentative subdivision map of Shelter Cove.
Respectfully submitted,