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Home My WebLink About1978-02-15; Planning Commission; Minutes.CITY ob= LARLSBAD ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FEBRUARY 15 , 1978 CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS PAGE 1 - "____ ."- I --I"- , CALL TO ORDER - The. meeting was called to order at 7:05 P.M. ROLL CALL 4 ' PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE APPROVAL OF MINUTES A motion was made to incorporate Commissioner Jose's remarks concerning Case No. CUP-147 into the January 25, 1978 Planning Commission Minutes as follows: "Commissioner Jose stated that he would like to carry Commissioner Woodward's comments further. He stated that traffic would be using the ingress and egress facilities of the service station and that it is one of the worst traffic congestion spots in the City of Carlsbad. He said that if this is going to be a pick up and drop off operation, it wil: add to traffic. He mentioned that there was no period of review. He felt that it was going to generate a much bigger problem than we now have there. NEW BUSINESS (1) ZCA-86 Residential Estates - Report back to City Council Mr. Bud Plender, Assistant Planning Director, gave the staff presentation. He showed a series of slides of the rural and estate developments in the general area. The Commissioners determined that the reasons the City Councj had sent this back to the Planning Commission was for the purpose of review of a one acre minimum with no averaging. Commissioner Fikes was concerned about septicity and the concept of water conservation. He recommended a study on the possible amount of water Carlsbad will receive in the near future, how much would be going into reclamation and at what point will the developers be required to do reclamation. As the water flows from the leech line at the end of the septic system into the soil, how far must it go bc it is usable for: 1) watering plant life, 2) use, by animals (including humans) , and 3) for the total purpose of clean water. He stated this may or may not have somethin! to do with the size of the lot, but answers to these questions may determine the zoning. Mr. Don ROse, Associate Planner, illustrated examples of lot size based on average slope by using the formula stated in the staff report as an alternative method of determining lot sizes. Commissioner Rombotis wanted further proof that this system would provide the best utilization of the land, and would like staff to show how the formula was created. One of the problems he envisions is that the formula will not guarantee good lot design and the staff and Commission will still'have to work on future subdivision designs so that lots will follow natural demarcations such as valleys and ridge tops. The Commissioners discussed the fire hazards involved with the rural lots over one acre which would have natural vegetation as compared to the probability of manicured lots of one acre in size. Fire retardant roofs would be necessary for the buildings and fire retardant type of vegetation would be required around the house. Although it probably would not require more fire stations, it might require additional fire personnel. Mr. Lefty Anear, retired .- -I- 1 i.. 2:: 3 ! "" " """ PRESENT WTION kYES WSTAIN Ire i " I X X \ ADJOURNED PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FEBRUARY 15, 1978 PAGE 2 ; 'Fire Chief, reported that the Fire Prevention Ordinance has a provision that so many feet of clearance of combustible 'vegetation at a certain height must be maintained about houses in settings with natural vegetation. The expense . is 'to the homeowner for maintenance. Mr.',Fbbert Sonneborn said he was happy that a rational solution to the problem seemed to be near. He said it is up to the Commission to decide whether they want to make it a residential estate or a rural estate zoning. He stated he has not seen a rural estate and does not consider Rancho Santa Fe one with its one acre minimum zoning and architect's control on approximately 4,000 acres which he fe1. placed that development in a different category. Mr. Sonneborn felt the Commission should keep in mind that this zone was for ail of Carlsbad, not just the Tootsie K; in fact the Tootsie K may not be interested in the zoning the Commissioners agree to. He said he was basing his opinions on the market, good utilization of land and the fact that there is little land left in Carlsbad. He pointed out that there is very little flat land left in Carlsbad and if it is flat it will not be one acre zoning. The land surrounding the Tootsie K on one side is getting 3.6 units per acre for a 7,500 sq. ft. lot and the Kelly property on the other side has 10,000 sq. ft. lots. Mr. Sonneborn said the Tootsie K was a good location for residential estate zoning of one a( minimum and that the slopes will mandate the size of sots placed on them. .It did not make sense to him to place a single house of approximately 3,000 sq. ft. on land greater than 1 acre.. He said the City Engineer had expressed the opinion that one acre lots would require very little more over a two acre lot as far as City costs were concerned. He said he did not feel that the market could support the two acre minimum zone. Comnkssioner L'Heureux expressed interest in having the rural and residential concepts combined in the same zone maintaining as much flexibility as possible. Mrs. Russell Grosse would like to see lower density and felt it possibly would be economical for the developer ifthe on site improvement costs were lower. Mr. Tim Flanagan, City Engineer, said the roads would have t meet City standards as to construction, but kind and design c improvements are lowered ip this zone. Mr. B. Cantarini, owner of 140 acres just west of the Tootsie K, said after hearing all of the discussion he felt that Mr. Sonneborn has a good idea. He agreed with him on all points. * Mr. Russell Grosse stated he was in favor of reducing the cost of development in exchange for getting a lower density. He.defined a rural area as one basically where utilization of the land other than that occupied by house and garage was for purposes other than those having aesthetic value'., i.e., a small grove or barh, etc. He does not feel one acre does that as it takes that much land for house, garage, pools, tennis courts and manicured lawn areas. A different image is established at the two acre plus level. He would like to see a two acre minimum but with the provisic that City Council can approve less than that based on findin? by City Council that the area is compatible for both rural (2 acres Plus) and residential estate (1 acre) lots together. He felt that'it must be up to the developer to establish that he has a piece of property which warrants benefits obtained by a one acre minimum, i-e., that the ground has characterist \\ i \ ~ ”””- “ _” ~ ”- of both the estate and rural atmosphere. He- does not feel: that the slope density formula should be the only alternative that the City Council can apply. He felt in answer to Commission Yerk’es question as to what should the ’ City Council use as a guideline that they should be able . to’use subjective methods of envisioning houses sitting .next to houses. Commissioner Yerkes felt the City must have objective points rather than subjective points in determining the density. In order to be fair and equal, City Council and Planning Commission would want to be as objective as possible. Ms. Pat Collum complimented staff on the job they had done. She said the City has to decide what kind of zone that they want. She personally would lilge a two acre minimum in the area. Commissioner Larson said he liked averaging. Although he was not against one acre minimum he felt that based on the discussion there were probably not many parcels left where the slopes of the land would permit one acre using the slope guide and that possibly development would be a two acre average. Commissioner Woodward said she liked the staff report and was in agreement with it. Commissioner L’Heureux felt it would be helpful to come up with a new nanle as Residential Estate Zone was misleading Rural Estate Zone was suggested as a name. Commissioner L’Heurew believes that rural and residential estates could be compatible in the sm? general area. He suggested that a manual outside of the ordinance would be useful in setting down some of the items the Commission would look for such as concepts of uniform tree planting throughout a district, etc He felt this might eliminate a zone code amendment in the future. He also suggested to staff that they look at the item of barnyard animals in an estate zone. Commissioner Yerke’s felt that the intent and purpose of the ordinance should be rewritten to clarify that this is to be a zone of rural and estate development based on slopes and natural terrain.. Commissioner Jose said he was comfortable with the items discussed and agrees that 21.09.150 should be included in the ordinance. In his opinion the‘ Commission was close to arriving at what past Commissions were looking for in this particular zone. Chairman Rombotis requested staff to include in the ordinancl the items’discussed and bring it back to the next Planning Commission meeting. Meeting adjourned at 9:15 P.M. \