HomeMy WebLinkAbout1989-11-13; Parks & Recreation Commission; MinutesMeeting of:
Date of Meeting:
Time of Meeting:Place of Meeting:
MINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
November 13, 1989
5:00 p.m.
Council fhamhart COMMISSIONERS
CALL TO ORDER:
Chairperson Dahlquist-Bursvold called the meeting to
order at 5:04 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Chairperson Dahlquist/Bursvold, Commissioners
Castner, Knox, Lawson, Strayer, Ward
Absent: Commissioner Wclshons
STAFF PRESENT:
David Bradstreet, Director of Parks and Recreation
Michael Holzmiller, Planning Director
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Ward noted changes 1n the October 16, 1989
minutes to reflect the Approval of the Agenda where
Commissioner Ward voted no and on Page 11, Commissioner
Ward voted no on the motion to accept in concept for
further exploration to research the possibility of a
national volleyball center and events/conference center
in Carlsbad. With that the minutes were unanimously
approved.
APPOINT SCRIBE:
Commissioner Strayer made the Motion to accept the
October scribe report. Motion passed unanimously.
Commissioner Castner was appointed Scribe for this
meeting.
PUBLIC OPEN FORUH:
Thelma Hayes, 580 Lagoona Drive addressed the Commission
regarding the expansion of summer activities at Carlsbad
Parks and Playgrounds to include free supervised
programs. Mrs. Hayes stated the two main reason for her
suggestion were: 1.) An article in the Union on November
16, reporting about Oceanside gang activity and its
recommendations and 2.) Her professional Parks and
Recreation experience.
She suggested that at on the next agenda the Parks and
Recreation Commission discuss as a preventive measure for
Carlsbad, how to expand the City's plans for summer
activities at Carlsbad's Parks and Playgrounds to include
free supervised programs especially in the areas with a
high concentration of children and youth.
Mrs. Hayes went on to say that she feels free, supervised
summer programs at neighborhood schools and parks should
be a part of Carlsbad's Recreation Program. Such
programs have been offered in other communities Mrs.
Hayes has lived.
Quoting from the Union article, Mrs. Hayes said
there are too few parks and almost no supervised after
school, weekend, and summer recreational opportunities.
She continued that some of the problems described are
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Page 2 COMMISSIONERS
PUBLIC OPEN FORUM: (Continued)
present in Carlsbad and to prevent them from growing, she
felt the City should take advantage of therecommendations made in the article.
Commissioner Strayer asked Mrs. Hayes what type of
programs she was suggesting. Mrs. Hayes replied that
they were not specific programs but varied programsranging from basketball to art and crafts and putting on
plays. Commissioner Strayer then went on to say he
agreed that there was a need for more programs and
pointed out some of the programs the City already has
including a new program call the Calavara Kids Club whichprovides activities on Thursday afternoons for kids from
Kindergarten through 6th grade from 3:30 p.m. to 6:00
p.m. Mrs. Hayes state that her request was to expand on
the plans and programs the City has and to concentrate onthe areas where there are a great number of children and
youth.
Commissioner Ward suggested that Mrs. Hayes should
approach the Child Care Commission as well. Ward went on
to say the Child Care Commission has been exploring the
needs of the community and they might have valuable
input.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
The Parks and Recreation Commission accepted the Agenda
as presented. Motion was made by Commissioner Knox and
passed unanimously.
CONSENT CALENDAR;
The Parks and Recreation Commission accepted the Consent
Calendar as presented. Motion was made by Commissioner
Castner and passed unanimously. Motion as follows:
1.AB 01189-1 DIRECTOR'S REPORT
Parks and Recreation Commission accepted and filed the
Director's Report for November/December 1989.
2.AB »1189-2 CARRILLO RANCH TOUR
Parks and Recreation Commission agreed to a tour of theCarrillo Ranch to coincide with the Commission Workshop.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
None
DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS:
3.PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSIONAB 01189-3
DINNER
Mr. David Bradstreet, Parks and Recreation Director
addressed the Commission regarding who should be invitedto the Annual Parks and Recreation Christmas Program with
regards to past Commissioners. The Parks and Recreation
staff came up with three alternatives for the Commission.
The first alternative was for all previous Parks andRecreation Commission members to be invited. The second
alternative would be to invite Parks and Recreation
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
Commission members having served within the last two (2)
years. The final alternative was to invite Parks and
Recreation Commission members having served during anypart of the previous calendar year.
Commissioner Ward inquired as to how many it would be if
all past Commissioners were invited. Mr. Bradstreet
stated that he believed it to be about 25 to 30 people.
Commissioner Ward stated she
preferred the two year alternative because she felt if
you went all the way back that some of the people wouldbe somewhat removed.
Commissioner Castner also felt if should be confined tothe last two years saying it would be too difficult if
all past Commissioners were invited.
Commissioner Knox preferred Alternative 3, confining it
to the previous calendar year.
Commissioner Strayer stated he had no preference between
Alternative 2 or 3.
Chairperson Oahlqulst/Bursvold felt that since it was a
pot luck and not enough food would not be a factor, andthat some of the Commissioners served on the Commission
for a long period of time some would probably feel leftout if they weren't included. Hence, Dahlquist/Bursvold
felt they should all be invited.
Commissioner Ward made a motion to Invite Parks and
Recreation Commission members having served within thelast two years be invited to the Christmas dinner.
The motion passed 3-2 with Commissioner Knox and
Chairperson Dahlquist/Bursvold being the minority votes.
Commissioner Knox felt it was a Christmas party for thatyear and not for past Commissioners. Dahlquist/Bursvold
preferred that all members be Invited because she
believed It was for all who had served on the Commission.
Mr. Bradstreet stated that invitations would be sent out
shortly and would be held at the new Senior Center.
4. AB 11189-4 PARKS AND RECREATION
ELEMENT/GENERAL PLAN UPDATE.
Mr. Bradstreet Introduced Michael Holzmiller, Planning
Director who was in attendance to explain the GeneralPlan and updating the General Plan. Mr. Bradstreet went
on to say that the City Staff, City Attorney, City
Manager, Planning Director and himself met with the Sub-
Committee of the Parks and Recreation Commission to
update them prior to this and the Sub-Committee asked
that staff make a brief presentation.
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
Mr. Holzmiller gave a brief history on the Sub-Committeewhich was formed to update the General Plan which
contains 13 elements of which Parks and Recreation is 1element. Their job was to bring those up-to-date. He
stated that the first thing was to have all of the
elements in the same format. Secondly to have them
better reflect plans and programs, ordinances that had
been formally approved by the City Council. Finally, the
Sub-Committee was to look at all of the 13 elements and
make sure there was consistency between the elements.Mr. Holzmiller indicated that the Parks and Recreation
element was reformatted and checked for consistency,
however a processing complication occurred.
Holzmiller went on to explain the problem which dealt
with the inconsistencies between the proposed New Open
Space Element and the new Parks and Recreation element.
He stated there was a need to do studies to address thepolicy issues and inconsistencies. They were also faced
with the problem of the timing of the General PlanUpdate.
Holzmiller continued'with explaining the inconsistencies
between the two elements. The first inconsistency dealt
with the trail system. In the Parks and Recreationelement, trail systems are encouraged as part of private
developments. In the Open Space Element a comprehensive,
City wide trail systems, owned and operated by the City,
is encouraged.
The second Inconsistency dealt with the active versuspassive. The Parks and Recreation Element differed with
the Open Space Element as the Open Space element
recommended reconsideration and put more emphasis onpassive and not developing new park areas.
The third Inconsistency, as stated by Mr. Holzmiller was
in terms of use elements. The Parks and RecreationElement has a lot of standards in types of use and things
that are needed to serve the population. The Open Space
Committee recommended that we come up with standards for
a lot more uses.
Mr. Holzmiller stated another concern was an overlap ofadministration between Parks and Recreation and Open
Space. It had been recommended by the Open Space
Commission that another commission be formed that would
coordinate the two existing commissions.
Mr. Holzmiller informed the Commission that the Planning
Commission Sub Committee has come up with a newProcessing Strategy. They are recommending that we
separate out the proposed new Parks and Recreation
Element and the proposed New Open Space Element from theGeneral Plan Update. They are also recommending that we
use the existing, reformatted 1982 Parks and RecreationElement using the updated inventory and the new Parks and
Recreation map showing the location of future parks forthe General Plan. Finally, they are recommending a study
be done and the policy issue and areas of inconsistencybetween the two elements be analyzed.
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
In terms of timing, Mr. Holzmiller said the General PlanUpdate should be completed by February, 1990. The
studies would then be completed by May of 2990 and then a
hearing would be held on the new elements in June of
1990.
Commissioner Ward commented that due to the time
restraints she felt that there really wasn't any other
choice.
Commissioner Castner inquired as to how much a trailsystem would cost. Mr. Holzmiller stated that part of
the study would involve looking at the cost of acquiring
the property, the construction and to maintain it. Hesaid based on a 1982 study of 5 million dollars, he felt
it could be anywhere between 10 and 15 million dollars.
Mr. Bradstreet believed that was based on 35 miles oftrails excluding the cost of the land. It was assumed
the land would be dedicated, and the cost was just to
develop the land and there would be an on going
maintenance cost and a liability issue.
Commissioner Lawson commented that he remembered that theCommission took that position due to a concern of
funding. He went on to say that the main reason the
Parks and Recreation Element moved forward was predicatedon that basis. Lawson felt had the Open Space Committeetaken place prior to the Commission working on the
element, the Parks and Recreation element could have been
quite different as it related to this issue, because it
did not come to us based on the assumption and theindicators that we couldn't fund such a mechanism.
Mr. Bradstreet said that was correct. He said the Parks
and Recreation Commission and City Council heard the cry
for a more balanced program of larger facilities with
active and passive areas incorporated within those
facilities and that is what this Commission recommended.
Commissioner Lawson stated that there was a real reversal
in the philosophy according to what the Open Space
Committee tends to be moving forward.
Commissioner Knox asked for clarification on the studies
and the analysis of these policy issues would be done by
the Parks and Recreation Sub Committee in conjunction
with the Planning Commission Sub Committee.
Mr. Holzmiller answered that the Planning Commission was
preparing the work plans for the studies presently. He
sated there were 5 or 6 studies to be done.
Commissioner Castner inquired as to how wide a trail is.
Mr. Holzmiller stated that is would be a minimum of 10
feet depending on topography. He said that also would be
part of the study.
Commissioner Castner asked if we did not do this now orin the near future if it would be able to be done.
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
Mr. Holzmiller replied they felt the City was at a point
in its development that it was still possible to do. He
said there was enough undeveloped land that we could geta trail in and it could link up the City.
Commissioner Lawson stated that all major projects inprocess now have been requested to be looking at some
sort of trail network within their project.
Commissioner Knox commented that it was her understanding
that it was a linking trail system and the City would
have to purchase the land to link all of the trail
systems. Knox state that it could be very difficult in
some areas because there would be little if any room in
some areas.
Commissioner Hard stated that sentiment of a City wide
trail system is running very high and she felt it shouldbe thoroughly explored.
Lawson asked if it would be advisable to have another
person on the Sub Committee as one of the three is no
longer with the Sub Committee. Mr. Bradstreet said thatthe Chairperson should appoint someone from the Sub
Committee list to take the place of Mr. Popovich.
Mr. Bradstreet said that the Park Site and Facility
Planning Committee consisted of Dahlquist/Bursvold,Lawson, Welshons, Strayer, and Knox.
Chairperson Dahlquist/Bursvold stated that since it was
an informational element it should be an Action Item onnext month's agenda as to whether Commissioner Strayer or
Commissioner Knox would choose to be on the revision.
Mr. Bradstreet pointed out that the packets contain the
revised 1982 Element. He stated there was a correction
noted on page 37 in which the matrix at the bottom needed
to be analyzed again. He believed some park acreage wasleft off.
Mr. Holzmiller explained that the scratched areas were
deletions and the highlighted areas were additions.
Commissioner Knox made mention of the fact that Lake
Calavara was deleted and asked where it could be found.
Mr. Bradstreet stated that back in 1986, Lake Calavarawas eliminated from the Inventory list as it was not
going to be developed by the Parks and Recreation
Department because it was an asset for the Waterenterprise fund. He went on to say that since that time
things have changed. A marriage between the City and the
Water District has moved Lake Calavara back Into the
inventory. Our new, revised, proposed element adds it
back in as an Open Space Special Recourse Area GolfCourse.
Commissioner Lawson asked if there was some recommended
procedure that the Commission could go through to make
sure they could have some sort of representation.
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
Mr. Holzmiller replied that originally they hadn't
realized that so many issues relating to Parks would come
up. He feels it would be better to have more
representation.
Chairperson Dahlqulst/Bursvold commented on the
composition of a commission and a committee. She stated
that commissions are really looking at everything foreverybody.
Commissioner Ward volunteered for the position on the
Open Space Committee.
Chairperson Dahlqulst/Bursvold asked that CommissionerWard, Strayer and Knox talk it over before the next
meeting.
5. AB 11189-5 NORTHWEST QUADRANT. HOSP 6ROVE
ISSUES. AMD OTHER AMENITY IMPROVEMENTS.
Mr. Bradstreet gave a presentation regarding Hosp Groveissues and the past and future improvements that have
taken place in the Northwest Quadrant.
Commissioner Castner stated that we are paying all the
money, the City owns Hosp Grove and it sits over there
and that we are getting nothing out of it except to lookat it. As he understands it, in 1986, the City bought
the 49.55 acres. Castner went on to say that If the City
had been able to pay cash for the land it would have been$6.2 million dollars, but because the City was unable
to do this the price went up from $125,106 per acre to$353,178 per acre. Castner added that the City is now
paying $875,000 per year out of the general fund for this
land.
Castner stated that what bothered him was the fact that
we count only 27 acres towards the park inventory. He
understood that before the last purchase the City owned
36 acres. Since that time the City has acquired almost
50 acres and still only 27 acres continues to be counted
as Park Inventory. Commissioner Castner expressed that
he felt this would be an excellent place for a passive
park with picnic areas and trails and it is there and we
own it. He didn't think 1t would cost much money to makethe Improvements. He felt that the use of the area
shouldn't be denied to the people of Carlsbad since it
belongs to them. Castner suggested that the Commission
direct the staff to find out how much land 1s useable and
could be considered in the park Inventory. He also asked
the land to be developed so that it can be used. He
stated it wouldn't have any effect on Open Space.
Commissioner Ward commented she believed why the 27 acres
was there 1s that a lot of Hosp Grove 1s environmentally
constrained because of the steepness of the slopes. Ward
added that before she could go ahead with researching
this she would like to hear from someone on the PoliceDepartment and Fire Department who could discuss
liabilities on safety Issues. She agreed that the area
would make a terrific passive park, but felt there was
fire and safety concerns.
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DEPARTMENTAL REPORTS: (Continued)
Commissioner Lawson asked staff if Council had directedthe staff and the Commission at the Council meeting last
Tuesday, to be looking at this and other pieces ofproperty of development opportunities for Park use in the
Northwest quadrant? Mr. Bradstreet confirmed Lawson'sbelief.
Lawson asked if the Commission should look forconsistencies as far as the direction between this and
the direction we are getting from Council. Mr.
Bradstreet replied that they should. Lawson went on to
say that Council and directed the Commission to do the
study without one taking precedence over the other
because it seemed they wanted the Commission to look ateverything.
Mr. Bradstreet suggested that the Commission take a look
at all the properties of which Hosp Grove is one of, andcome back with those answers.
Commissioner Castner asked Mr. Bradstreet if he knew howlong that would take. Mr. Bradstreet replied that these
Items will be discussed in the January Commission
meeting. He added the City Council wants a 5 year plan.
Commissioner Castner asked that the Sub Committee takeinto consideration of what he said. He stated that Hosp
Grove 1s there and the people have requested the parkarea, so it should be used.
Commissioner Strayer stated that he was in total
agreement with Commissioner Castner. He felt the City
has spent a lot of money on Hosp Grove and that it is a
very useful property. He added that some areas need to
be cleared up In the case of liability, safety, access,
parking and those types of Issues, but with the need in
the Northwest Quadrant for park area and Hosp Grove being
available something can and should be done without delay.
Commissioner Castner made a motion to direct the staff
that the enhancement of Hosp Grove receive top priorityas a recommendation to the Sub Committee. Commissioner
Knox seconded the motion. Commissioner Ward opposed the
motion stating that she couldn't recommend it as a toppriority without looking Into the safety issues.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
1. N. H. Quadrant Park Issues
Chairperson Dahlquist/Bursvold reported this Committee
was taking the direction to come up with more park land
in the N. W. Quadrant. The other recommendations were
accepted by the Council and that the Committee felt verycomfortable with the recommendations they were making.
She stated that they would be looking at N. W. Quadrantspaper when they meet again in January to proceed on with
that.
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COW HILL RLPORTS: (Contin'^dl
Mr. Bradstreet stated the City Manager has commended the
department, commission, sub committee and commissioners
for a very well done product. He added the Manager
expressed his appreciation to all those who spent the
hours working on this, and that both of the reports were
accepted and that the recommendations of the commission
were endorsed by the City Council. Mr. Bradstreet stated
that the N. W. Quadrant Report should come back to the
Park and Recreation Commission and there may have been
some good points that we may extract out and utilize.
Bradstreet said basically the biggest thing he felt that
come out of the report was that the City Council
supported the Park Classifications and the methods and
the standards that we use. He went on to say that the
issues Council needs to address are, the Pine Street
School, the Park Site Study, and the issue on Zone 8 and
24 whether to require land In lieu of land money. Mr.
Bradstreet informed the Commission hat they have already
accepted money in lieu of land in that area.
Commissioner Lawson commented that he had read the N. W.
Quadrant's Committee Report and was frustrated that we
did not include theirs Into ours. He did not feel that
what they were presenting was much different and he felt
there wasn't a need to have them as two separate reports.
Commissioner Castner inquired as to whether the rest of
the Commission would get a chance to read it. Mr.
Bradstreet answered that copies could be given to them
but it was too late to be put on this Commission Agenda.
He went on to say that the Quadrant report would be put
on the December Agenda as an Informational item. He
added the Chair did not want this as a formal discussion
until January.
Mr. Bradstreet mentioned that the only agenda item at
this time 1s related to Carrillo Ranch.
Chairperson Dahlquist/Bursvold added she would also like
to hold the election for the Chair in December.
CULTURAL FACILITIES PLAN:
Due to Commissioner Welshons being absent, no report was
given.
SCRIBE REPORT:
Commissioner Castner gave the Scribe Report.
ADJOURNMENT :
By proper motion, made by Commissioner Knox, the Meeting
of November 13, 1989 was adjourned at 6:40 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Wendy Y. Smijh
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